“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!” – Samuel Adams

Southern Poverty Law Center’s Despicable Lies

Listen to the author read this article

Install Microsoft Silverlight

Gina Miller

You may recall on this broadcast a little over a week ago, I reported on a homofascist vandalism crime accompanied by terroristic threats against the Christian Liberty Academy which was hosting a banquet by Americans for Truth about Homosexuality given in honor of Scott Lively, who is a pro-family champion and defender of the biblical truth about the sin of homosexuality.

Back on October 15th, in the early morning hours on the day of the banquet, unknown perpetrators threw chunks of concrete bricks through the glass in the entryway of Christian Liberty Academy.  The demand “Shut down Lively” was written on the bricks.  Later, a “press release” was sent to Americans for Truth President Peter LaBarbera, Church of Christian Liberty Pastor Calvin Lindstrom and the Chicago Independent Media Center claiming responsibility for the crime (without actually identifying themselves) and threatening further attacks if Scott Lively’s appearance was not cancelled.  The Christian Liberty Academy did not cave to the terroristic threats, and the banquet proceeded as scheduled with no problems.

This Tuesday evening, I got an e-mail from Brad Wallace of Americans for Truth.  The e-mail contained a copy of a column that I assumed was a parody as I began to read it.  Then I realized I was reading an actual opinion column by a member of the Southern Poverty Law Center.

The column was written by Leah Nelson, and it begins,

“Adding fuel to a fire started and stoked by anti-gay activists who claim that LGBT people are the worst threat facing the United States, vandals on Saturday threw bricks through the windows of a Chicago-area school that was set to host a banquet honoring anti-gay agitator Scott Lively later that day.”

Lenin reading Pravda

Here we have a typically false argument commonly used by homosexual activists against those of us who stand for moral truths and absolutes.  They attempt to claim that we are the ones who started the sexual anarchy revolution.  That could not be further from the truth.  The radical homosexuals themselves are the ones who have systematically pushed their perverse behavior into the mainstream of America.

If anything, Christians are guilty of standing idly and silently by as creeping homofascism left its depraved bedroom and wormed its way into our public schools, our media, our television shows and Hollywood pictures, and even into our churches and the highest positions in our government and military.  Christians have waited until the homosexual invasion of our culture is almost complete.  We have waited until we are on the very brink of losing our freedoms of speech and expression and freedom of religion at the hands of a violent and vocal radical fringe element in our society that demands its repugnant behavior be given full acceptance in our culture.

But we did not start the war; they did.  And in the first sentence of this twisted article, Leah Nelson also employs the classic “blame the victim” tactic as she says those of us who stand against the mainstreaming of homosexuality have “started and stoked” this “fire,” and that Scott Lively is an “anti-gay agitator.”  That kind of terminology is clearly intended to say that the members of the Christian Liberty Academy and Americans for Truth brought this attack on themselves.

I noticed that Leah Nelson’s column was posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center’s website under the “Hatewatch” section, reportedly dedicated to “keeping an eye on the radical right.”  Yeah, boy!  We “radical righters” really need to be closely watched!  There’s no telling where we may pop up with such dreadful behavior as defending the United States Constitution, family values, unborn babies’ right to life, true marriage, fiscally responsible, limited government, border security or any of a number of other really scary, hateful things that are dear to our radically right hearts!  So, we have “Hatewatch” from the Southern Poverty Law Center keeping a close, wary eye on us.

We are not surprised at any fallacious rhetoric that emanates from the Southern Poverty Law Center.  They have degenerated into nothing more than a radical leftist mouthpiece against Christian values, conservative principles and basically all members of center-right America, especially those of us who identify with the patriotic Tea Party movement.

Matt Barber of Liberty Council has written a number of columns about the duplicity and radical agenda of the Southern Poverty Law Center.  In one piece titled, “SPLC: The Wolf Who Cried ‘Hate’,” he makes these observations,

“Prior to [2010] November’s secular-socialism rollback, America’s ever-shrill ‘progressive’ machine contorted in a desperate effort to paint the Tea Party movement as a horde of hateful, inbred racists. Judging by the results, it was an epic failure.

Instead, and thanks at least in part to the left’s overreaching smear campaign, the grass-roots Tea Party groundswell – representing every facet of traditional American values – grew to become a political force of nature.

Now the frays of the fanatical fringe have done it again. These so-called ‘progressives,’ led by the Alabama-based Southern Poverty Law Center SPLC, have gifted the American mainstream with yet another teachable moment. The SPLC is a small, hard-left political activist outfit known for promoting a panoply of radical liberal causes. The center holds itself out as an objective monitor of potentially violent or subversive hate groups such as the Ku Klux Klan, skinheads and other white supremacists.

But in recent years – and with increasing abandon – the SPLC has leveraged (abused, really) its rapidly decreasing political capital and waning credibility to target and undermine organizations that, rather than dealing in the business of genuine ‘hate,’ instead pose a direct threat to the advancement of postmodern secular-socialism generally – and to the Democratic Party specifically. This is what we in ‘the biz’ call ‘political hackery.’

In sum, the SPLC has become an extremist wolf in ‘watchdog’ clothing.”

Yes, indeed.  Members of the Southern Poverty Law Center have not met a conservative or Christian they did not gleefully rush to paint with the “hate” label brush—just ask the American Family Association or any other attendee of the Values Voter Summit in Washington DC.  Never mind that in their haste to call those of us who stand for rightness and truth, “bigoted haters,” that they malign countless millions, perhaps even the majority, of their fellow American citizens.  No.  All that matters is the promoting of their far-left, socialist agenda, and part of that agenda includes the fierce defense of the radical homosexual movement.

Further along in her column, Leah Nelson claims that Scott Lively and Kevin Abram’s book The Pink Swastika has been discredited, but is that really so?  On the book’s product page at WND’s Superstore is this brief description,

“The Pink Swastika is a thoroughly researched, eminently readable, demolition of the ‘gay’ myth, symbolized by the pink triangle, that the Nazis were anti-homosexual.”

An uncomfortable fact for members of the pro-homosexual movement is the reality that a number of high-ranking members of the Nazi party were homosexual, including Rudolph Hess and Ernst Röhm, the leader of the violent, brown-shirted SA storm troopers.  That is simply a fact of history, and the militant homosexual activists go ballistic when that fact is brought up.

Leah Nelson also goes on to claim that according to FBI statistics, homosexuals are the victims of the most so-called “hate crimes” in the United States, much more so, she claims, than Christians are.  Since it seems to be a rare thing to find authorities willing to attach the label of “hate crime” to any crime that does not involve a political or racial minority, I do not place much faith in FBI “hate crimes” statistics.

Leah Nelson does not cite a single example of any Christian threatening to kill a homosexual.  She cites no example of any Christian threatening to burn down a homosexual nightclub and tax its charred timbers.  She cites no example of any Christian threatening to kill or rape a family member of a homosexual—nope, not a one.  Yet, we have abundant examples of radical homosexuals issuing these very threats against Christians and other conservatives who have dared to stand up against the attempts by homosexuals to counterfeit marriage.

The most vicious and truly hateful behavior and words come from militant homosexuals.   And for the Southern Poverty Law center’s hack bloggers to sit at their keyboards and make the ridiculous claim that the real hatred comes from Christians who defend marriage and point out the fact that homosexuality is an immoral and unhealthy behavior, is right in line with what the Southern Poverty Law Center represents:  despicable lies.

We have plenty of examples of violent threats and behavior by militant homosexuals against defenders of marriage.  In one recent case, we saw a judge in Washington state issue an astonishing ruling against a group of plaintiffs who had challenged radical homosexual groups’ demands to know the names and addresses of people who had signed petitions calling for a statewide vote on whether or not homosexuals should be given basically the same rights as married couples.  The homosexual groups demanding the petition signers’ names declared that they were going to post the signers’ name and addresses on the Internet in searchable databases.  The plaintiffs asked the judge to block the release of their names and addresses, because people who had signed the petition, some whose names had already been made public, had received death threats.

From the plaintiffs’ motion for summary judgment are examples of numerous threats including,

“I will kill you and your family.”

“Oh my God, This woman is so f—ing stupid. Someone please shoot her in the head, again and again. And again.”

“I’m going to kill the pastor.”

“If I had a gun I would have gunned you down along with each and every other supporter…”

“We’re going to kill you.”

“You’re dead. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon … you’re dead.”

“I’m a gay guy who owns guns, and he’s my next target.”

“I warn you, I know how to kill, I’m an ex-special forces person.”

“You better stay off the Olympic peninsula… it’s a very dangerous place filled with people who hate racists, gay bashers and anyone who doesn’t believe in equality.  Fair is fair.”

“Get ready for retribution, all you bigots.”

“Burn their f—ing churches to the ground, and then tax the charred timbers.”

“I fully support violence against churches who are politically-active as anti-gay . . . .”

The motion also cited actual violence and vandalism, including, among other things, physical assaults, keyed cars, spray-painted homes and buildings, slashed tires, stolen and mangled signs, and smashed windows in cars, homes, and other structures.  However, the judge in that case thought all those death threats and actual violence did not warrant keeping the names sealed, so he ruled to hand those 138,000 names over to the radical homosexuals.  Now we wait and see what may happen.  Prayers for the safety of the petition signers, their families and property are certainly in order.

Yes, we know from where the real hatred and violence comes, and it is not from Christians telling the truth about homosexuality.  The Southern Poverty Law Center members’ despicable lies will never change the truth, but will only continue to further erode the last molecules of any credibility they may have once had.

Gina Miller, a native of Texas, is a radio commentator. She also works with her husband installing and repairing residential irrigation systems and doing landscaping on the Mississippi Gulf Coast.


Try us out at the new location: American Clarion!


44 Responses to “Southern Poverty Law Center’s Despicable Lies”

  1. Opposition to homosexuality, exercised within Biblical values, has never killed a homosexual. (It has hurt their pride quite a bit, but Biblical values tend to do that to people.)

    Opposition to homosexuality, exercised outside of Biblical values, has killed and hurt a moderate number of homosexuals. (Probably not as many as some would lead you to think, though. And note that the poster child for preventing “anti-gay hate crimes,” Matthew Shepard, was not actually even a victim of an anti-gay “hate crime.”)

    Acceptance of homosexuality, and allowing/encouraging “gay”-identified people to continue their behavior, has killed and hurt a LARGE number of homosexuals — including one of my best friends.

    If people really want to protect homosexuals from harm, guess which one of the above they should be most strongly opposed to?

  2. “…given in honor of Scott Lively, who is a pro-family champion and defender of the biblical truth about the sin of homosexuality.”

    you forgot one of his proudest accomplishments…  helping to inspire the “kill the gays bill” in uganda… along with lou engle and rick warren.

    being christian is a choice…  it is not a prerequisite to be an american and to have equal rights.  being a christian does not give special rights to deny others their equal rights.  from the left-handed to ethnicity to gender and now sexuality, christianity has repeatedly tried to force their dogmas on a democratic country.  if this was a theocratic country, i would have no argument…  but again, this is NOT a theocracy.

  3. I repeat myself.

    You are a liar and a slanderer of Scott Lively, but that is the norm for radical homosexuals who have no truth in them.From the WND column linked in my previous piece is the truth of the matter:The press release claiming responsibility for the attack on the Christian Liberty Academy even blamed Lively for murder: “In 2009, Lively and other American homophobes spoke at a conference in Uganda called ‘Exposing the Truth About Homosexuality and the Homosexual Agenda,’” the release asserts. “This conference stirred the anti-gay atmosphere that already exists in Uganda, a country with laws that punish homosexual acts with up to 14 years in prison. As a direct result of this conference, participants have drafted a bill that, if passed, would increase the sentencing for homosexual acts to life sentences and execution and make it a legal responsibility to report homosexuals in the community. It continues, “On Jan. 26, 2011, Ugandan gay rights activist David Kisule was murdered after being outed in a newspaper ad that listed names and photos of queer people in the community as a part of an anti-gay campaign that is a result of Scott Lively’s visit.” The GLN took up a similar complaint about Lively’s time in Uganda in a letter to prominent Chicago pastor Erwin Lutzer, urging Lutzer to decline speaking at the AFTAH banquet because Lively and LaBarbera allegedly “support violence [against homosexuals] outright.” Lively, however, made public a letter to LaBarbera in which he countered claims about fomenting “hate” and “violence” in Uganda: “I am a Bible-believing Christian who abhors violence against anyone, and has never advocated violence or hatred against homosexuals,” Lively asserts. “During my 2009 trip [to Uganda] I also addressed members of the Ugandan Parliament in their national assembly hall. My advice to the MPs regarding the law they were contemplating but had not yet drafted was to focus on rehabilitation and not punishment. I urged them to become the first government in the world to develop a state-sponsored recovery system for homosexuality on the model we have in the United States for alcoholism. “In contradiction to my advice, a few months after the seminar an MP introduced a bill to criminalize homosexuality,” he continues. “The terms of the bill were harsh, as is very common in African countries, including capital punishment. … I do not support capital punishment for any sex crimes, let alone simple homosexuality, which I view as a treatable behavioral disorder, and so I opposed the bill. I was nevertheless accused in the international media of not only endorsing the bill, but of advocating for it.” As for the murder of David Kato Kisule, Lively points out there’s no cause to blame him for the crime. “Not once, but twice, when supposed homosexual activists in Uganda were killed, it was implied by the liberal Western media that I was responsible,” Lively asserts. “In both cases the deaths were later proved to be unrelated to the passions surrounding the Ugandan bill. The first turned out to be the work of pagan witch doctors involved in some bizarre ritual. The second, involving the grisly murder of Ugandan homosexual activist David Kato [Kisule], turned out to be a crime of passion by a male prostitute whom Kato had bailed out of jail and taken to be his houseboy.” He concludes, “I must, however, exhort my fellow Christians not to allow themselves to be influenced by the propaganda nor intimidated by the harassment tactics. It has always been the case that the cause of Christ is advanced only through selfless courage in the face of determined opposition.”

  4. yeah, sorry… i saw him interviewed on a vanguard documentary.  so he lies about himself?  c’mon.as i stated before… it is your choice to be a christian… it is not a mandatory law for all american citizens.  you have every right to hate, loathe and despise glbt people or anyone for that matter… hate blacks- hate women… it is right to do so, however, it is not your right to impose your belief system on a democracy.  again, mi’dear… this IS a democracy- not a theocracy.

  5. You are a liar, period.

    There is NO ONE attempting to “impose” any belief system on you. YOU are the ones attempting to impose your degenerate lifestyle CHOICE on mainstream America. WE are simply defending traditional, common-sense values, marriage, our freedom of speech and our children from the poisonous influence of the radical homosexual movement.

  6. There is not, and never has been, a basis in Christianity for hating anyone, especially due to some innate quality. Unfortunately for your personal belief system, there are no actual innate qualities included in the LGBT designations. The idea that there are is not based on the realities of people’s lives, but on the image they want to portray of themselves so as to appear to qualify for “equality.”

    The Christian call to genuinely love all often requires that tough love be exercised; love for a person requires hate for any destructive behavior they engage in. The fact that the behavior may be extremely difficult to change is beside the point.

    Calling opposition to homosexual behavior “hate” shows a refusal to understand both that behavior and the Christian response to it. It is the equivalent of covering your ears and going “LA LA LA LA LA.” To expect to be taken seriously by informed people while displaying such wilfull ignorance is presumptuous in the extreme.

  7. Everyone should read up on the sham Southern Poverty Law Center. And here is a great place to start:

    http://rkeefe57.wordpress.com/

  8. no one is trying to take away modern heterosexual marriage.  (i say “modern” because biblical, contractual, traditional marriage is one man and several women who are mere property and breeding machines.) no one is trying to keep you from marrying the ones you love or take away your marriage.  you are simply trying to prevent glbt people from forming their own unions which affects you and yours in no way, shape or form. 

    look, you are not insisting divorcees be prevented from remarrying and that is biblical:

    matthew 19:9 – “if a man divorces his
    wife, except for fornication, and marries another, he commits adultery; and whoever marries her, who is divorced, commits adultery.”

    yet, people get divorced everyday and no one tries to stop them.  there are far more references to adultery amongst heterosexuals than their are about homosexuality.

    the point i am making is that, just because you don’t agree with glbt marriage does not give you the right to try to prevent others from it.  while you may think it is your duty to show “tough love,” as DCM7 claims, the fact is, if these folks have not claimed christianity you have no biblical grounds to persuade or coerce them into living your lifestyle choice.

    and please, by all means, defend your freedom of speech… i will join you!  maintain your traditional and religious values… i will defend your right to do so with you, but don’t try to force your beliefs on others.  and your children have nothing to fear from the glbt community, but if you fear that the glbt people may sway your children, don’t have them around glbt people.  i try to keep my sons far from christianity because, as an ex-pastor, i have found it is a destructive, self-loathing belief system which is quite flawed- BUT that’s just my opinion and i would not try to force my views on you.

    please remember, the glbt community is not against you…  they do not have an agenda to wipe out christianity, nor do they aspire to make the world gay.  (though it would be a very beautiful place. lol)  all they want is to be able to live their lives with the same rights that their heterosexual counterparts enjoy-   like making health decisions for one another, you know? 

    remember, there were a whole lot of christians that felt the same anger, frustration and hatred when black americans first were integrating into their churches, schools and society… and women who stood up for their equal rights were chastised and told to be subservient to their male counterparts.  this, like so many times throughout history, is just progress and  its been going on since the beginning of time… even the judaic “church” hated jesus.  they said he was of the devil- that he mocked their religion and you made him your saviour. 

    how many innocent women were deemed heretics and witches and burned alive by those who insisted they all believe the same way and follow the same laws?  times change and the “church” as a whole will change too.  it always has and always will.  in 20 years there will not be a mainstream church that will say it was anti-gay… just like they would never say they were once anti-black.

    if glbt people have the right be partnered under secular- not religious- law the world will not end, the sun will still rise and the sky will remain blue. i promise.  your marriage will not fall apart because john and joe got hitched last week.  i promise.

  9. “missionaries of hate”
    vanguard

    scott lively says, and i quote, “like i said, i would not have written the bill this way, but what it comes down to is a question of- of the lesser of two evils.”

    evil 1) gay people wanting equal rights

    evil 2) killing gay people because they won’t live as you want them to

    hmmm?

    really?

    seriously…  really?

  10. We’ve debunked the lies about Lively here before; it’s too bad you missed it.

    Yes, being a Christian is a choice, the best one a person can make. One of the great things about America is that despite being founded by Christians on Christian principles, we do not require people to adhere to that religion, pay homage to it, or believe in it at all.

    But while believing in God or being left handed are not immoral, homosexual behavior IS immoral, and is recognized as immoral in the doctrine of every major religion.

    Further, science makes it obvious that homosexual behavior is abnormal and illegitimate. The design and function of the male and female sex organs make it obvious they were to be used in a heterosexual fashion. The only useful biological function (i.e. reproduction) they have can only be accomplished when they are utilized in a heterosexual fashion.

    Medical data also makes it clear that homosexual behavior is something to be avoided. The CDC has reported that 72% of all new male AIDS cases are associated with homosexual behavior–from a group that makes up less than 3% of the population. Homosexuals also face vastly elevated risks of virtually every other STD, hepatitis, anal cancer, substance abuse, depression, anxiety, suicide and domestic violence.

    So while most people aren’t going to care if you destroy your body and soul behind closed doors, it is illegitimate to expect society to applaud you for it or lend the behavior any sort of credibility.

  11. What would you say about a person who watched other people walk onto a bridge that was about to fall? Or someone who watched a person walk into a building where, say, a lot of poisonous snakes were slithering around openly? Or a person who watched another person drink from a water fountain the first person knew was tainted with arsenic? Or if a person was told by a doctor that they have a cancerous tumor on their lung that needs to be removed, another person told them, “No, that’s just a natural part of your body. You were born that way. Celebrate it!”

    You’d probably assume the person who watched other people endanger their lives hated these people, right? You’d probably surmise that the person watching others place themselves in harm’s way loathed and despised these other people and their safety right? You’d probably realize that the person trying to dissuade others from removing harmful elements from their life really had it in for that person, wouldn’t you?

    Then apparently it is YOU and your fellow homosexual activists and apologists who hate, loathe and despise people who engage in homosexual behavior, because you pretend the spiritual and physical dangers associated with this behavior don’t exist. In fact, you pretend and want others to believe that it is the most normal and healthy activity in the world to drink from a poisoned water fountain. Do you enjoy encouraging people to endanger themselves?

    You should repent of your self-centered contempt for the welfare of others.

  12. No, no one is trying to take away heterosexual marriage. Homosexual activists simply want to counterfeit it, thus devaluing it like counterfeiting currency devalues it.

    Counterfeiting real marriage also threatens developing children who depend on the stable, balanced environment that can best and really only be provided by a husband and wife in the commitment of marriage.

    If marriage can mean anything, then it means nothing, and so there is really no need to bother with something that means nothing.

    It is also a complete lie to claim that Biblical/traditional marriage is “one man and several women who are mere property and breeding machines.” You betray your astonishing ignorance (or devotion to spreading lies and propaganda) with such asinine and patently false statements. One man and one woman has always been God’s standard, regardless of any and all distortions of it, including polygamy and homosexual behavior.

    And actually most defenders of marriage do oppose frivolous, no-fault divorce. We have opposed it since it began in the 1960s, and many states are moving to curtail it with covenant marriages, requirements for counseling before divorce is allowed, etc.

    But the particularly insidious thing about allowing homosexual to counterfeit marriage is the complete distortion and devaluing of marriage itself. While divorce undermines the sanctity of marriage greatly, allowing two homosexuals to call their union “marriage” when it is completely lacking in one or the other necessary elements to form a marriage is the attempt to pass off a fake as the real thing.

    If I was a contractor and I tried to build you a bathroom with only male or female plumbing parts, would you pay me when the job was done? Only if you’re a fool, because such a counterfeit contraption isn’t going to function. Neither can a “marriage” where a man or a woman is missing.

    I also must point out that it is homosexual activists who are trying to force their beliefs on society. With less than 3% of the population engaging in this immoral, unnatural and extremely dangerous behavior, it is obvious that homosexual behavior is the aberration. You are trying to force the 97% of society to affirm and legitimize a 3% aberration, simply so you can feel better about your immoral behavior. That is insanity. If you insist on sodomizing each other in the privacy of your own domicile, no one is going to stop you, but it is insane to demand that society put a stamp of approval on your aberrant behavior.

  13. Homosexuals are killing each other. If you can dissuade others from doing harm to one another through criminal penalties, then you’ve probably saved some lives.

    Of course, you don’t really care about saving lives, any more than you care about being truthful about Scott Lively.

    You simply want sexual autonomy, and anything that gets in the way of that can just be damned.

  14. “you are not insisting divorcees be prevented from remarrying and that is biblical” — Actually, what is translated “divorce” in most Biblical passages, particularly the one you quote, refers to something totally different from modern divorce: “putting away” a wife without actually granting her a divorce, thus leaving her destitute and without recourse. That’s why divorcees are not prevented from remarrying; it is *not* Biblical.

    “they do not have an agenda to wipe out christianity” — They will if it continues to stand in the way of what they (think they) want. Didn’t you read any of the quotes near the bottom of the article?

    “all they want is to be able to live their lives with the same rights that their heterosexual counterparts enjoy” — Do their heterosexual counterparts have the right to “marry” someone of the same sex? No, nor should they, or anyone. Unequal arrangements cannot be rightly treated equally.
    “felt the same anger, frustration and hatred when black americans first were integrating into their churches, schools and society… how many innocent women were deemed heretics and witches and burned alive by those who insisted they all believe the same way and follow the same laws?” — None of what you describe is Christian, Biblical, or right. But opposing unhealthy sexuality is. The comparison between race and sexual preference is bogus and always has been.

    “your marriage will not fall apart because john and joe got hitched last week” — That’s a strawman argument. Opposition to counterfeit marriage has never been about effects on individual marriages. It’s about long-term effects on the bigger picture.

  15. YOU Robert are wrong, THIS IS A REPUBLIC-not a democracy!

  16. “homosexual activists simply want to counterfeit it, thus devaluing it like counterfeiting currency devalues it.”

    much like christians counterfeited christmas, easter, rock-n-roll, fashion, etc?  c’mon.  that’s just silly, mate.

    and if john and joe getting married causes you to devalue the relationship you have with your partner… then you have a really crappy marriage already.  gay marriage isn’t the issue, the fact you don’t have enough faith and belief in yours is the problem.

    and as for biblical, contractual, traditional marriage… have you read a bible because i have.  you might wanna look up these fellows:

    abraham, ahab, caleb, david, esau, ezra, gideon, hosea, jacob, moses, saul, simeon, solomon, zedekiah and many more.  i guess they were all lying too, right?

    my astonishing ignorance?  heh-heh… you’re so pious.  i love it.

    “and actually most defenders of marriage do oppose frivolous, no-fault divorce. we have opposed it since it began in the 1960s, and many states are moving to curtail it with covenant marriages, requirements for counseling before divorce is allowed, etc”

    but you haven’t come out and attacked those people or insisted on them not being permitted to divorce or remarry.  you have not tried to legally affect them in any way.  so you are a cherry picker, right?  pick an’ choose what you think will make yourself look a little more righteous.

    toilet plumbing?  really?  really?toilet plumbing and humans are very different things… you’re drawing straws now trying build an argument on pure silliness.  are you even for real?  you’re like betty bowers or the church lady right?  please tell me you’re just joking because there is no way you could possibly believe the goofy things you write here.

    i love the less than x% gig.  its funny, these alleged percentages have no weight as there are still thousands of gays, lesbian and bisexuals that are closeted and no way to prove these numbers.  especially the bisexuals.  every time there is a ‘promise keepers’ convention here, the strip clubs and gay bars make a killing.  and that is the truth. ;)

    and what is your obsession about anal sex.  firstly, i know a good plenty of hetero men who practice anal sex with their wives, girlfriends and/or tricks.  secondly, i know a lot of gay men that do not engage in anal sex and i can’t say i know of a lesbian that engages in anal sex either.

  17. really?  homosexuals are killing each other?  can you site me any recent attacks on homosexuals BY homosexuals?  now, i have read an awful lot about christians picketing funerals, terrorizing glbt people, vandalizing their homes, killing their animals, and going to other countries to inspire a bill of death.  i honestly don’t recollect the gays that kill gays.

    saving lives?  yes i care about saving the lives of thousands of african glbt people that some folks would like to have murdered.

    and again, yes, sexual autonomy.  why not?  again, if someone doesn’t choose to be a christian, why on earth should they have to adhere to your religions rules and regulations.  this is a democracy- NOT a theocracy.  you gotta remember that, mate.

  18. if someone was about to walk on a bridge that was going to fall, i would warn them… once… maybe twice… but if they were insistent, then i would wish em’ luck.  that’s how great stuntmen have carved their path… by doing these that others were to afraid to do.

    hey, there are churches- CHRISTIAN churches that handle snakes and drink poison.  how come you aren’t giving them a hard time.  they’re your brothers and sisters in christ…. shouldn’t you be trying to have their religion made illegal or something?

    cancer is one thing…  a mole is a better example.  some folks think they are ugly and unsightly, while some like them and call them beauty marks.  some can be cancerous, but most just make themselves known. maybe the glbt community is just a beauty mark on christianity’s nose…. just saying. ;)

    since when is “dissuading” inspiring a bill to bring death to thousands or humiliating families at funerals with disgusting signs? 

    and furthermore, i do not believe in YOUR religion or your thoughts about it, but you must remember we as americans have the right to practice whatever religion or no religion as we see fit.  glbt people do not have to agree with your religion to be an american and  enjoy the same rights as you.  that’s the point you seem to be missing.

    i get you don’t like it, you hate it but its not only about you christians and what you think.  this country is a big melting pot of races, nationalities, sexualities, religions, philosophies, etc… no one has rule or dominion over the rest.  it just doesn’t work that way.

  19. egad… take your semantics somewhere else.

  20. too bad i missed it?  i watched him.  i quoted him.

    america being founded on christianity?  really?  oh boy.  you really are a character!  hahaha.  i don’t have the time nor the patience to educate yo about “the foundation” of america.

    ah the ‘what is natural’ and the ‘reproduction’ arguments.  natural?  15000 species of animals engage in homosexuality and bisexuality.   and as for reproduction point, i guess women who are barren should never marry… after all, they cannot reproduce.  c’mon mate…  you can do better than that.  those are old hat.

    that’s why they wanna give little girls shots to prevent hpv.. because heterosexuals don’t get stds right?  seriously?  and there are no gays in the middle east.  and santa claus is your dad.  where do yu come up with this stuff?  world wide, HIV/AIDS is not a gay disease, rather, it would be a racial disease amongst black heterosexuals.

    “So while most people aren’t going to care if you destroy your body and
    soul behind closed doors, it is illegitimate to expect society to
    applaud you for it or lend the behavior any sort of credibility.”

    ah, but you do care.  otherwise, you wouldn’t come up with these funny little examples of snakes and toilets.  you care because it scares you… change.  like the many examples i have given, this too shall pass and the church will- as a whole- change with it.  there will always be the little fringe groups, like the KKK, who exist, but over time, reality and common sense overrides and folks like that fade into the background while the rest of the world continues to progress.

  21. you wanna do the “translation” game?  how about you start with the council of nicaea and how much was left out, rewrit and censored… then go on to king james who had many passages rewrit and censored.  then lets go to greek / koine, aramaic, hebrew and latin and get into a discussion of translation. 

    as far as those quotes… 1) i don’t know that those are real  2) have you read many comment boards?  i have seen christians spout some of the most heinous violent diatribe.  both sides have been vicious.  no one wants to take away your right to marriage.  your paranoid.

    “Do their heterosexual counterparts have the right to “marry” someone of the same sex?”

    no, that would make them homosexual.  heh-heh…  aw…  egad.  you should lay off the ganja mate.

    and christians said it was wrong for a black and a white to marry- that they are unequally yoked, that they are of a different tribe and it should be opposed… but then the paranoia stopped and everyone lived happily ever after… next.

    okay… long term… your great, great, great, great grandchildren are not going to be affected by john and joe hitching up.  better?
     

  22. You should take your spamming comments elsewhere, but I suppose you are our assigned militant homosexual troll.

    You will not win any converts here, nor are we likely to sway you from your beliefs.  You are wasting your time.

  23. I told you how how homosexuals are killing each other when I cited the health hazards of the behavior. Apparently you were too enslaved to this behavior to see clearly.

    Why not sexual autonomy? Because, as I have pointed out a second time now, sex has consequences, and consequences beg responsibility. Heterosexual sex has the awesome power to create human life, and with it the responsibility for raising the new human being. Homosexual sex has the awesome power to degrade and end human life. You are not, nor will you ever be, sexually autonomous, no matter how badly you want to be. Your behavior always has consequences.

    And if you hate theocracy so much, you’re probably okay with anyone who wants to coming into your house and taking your property, raping your or even killing you. After all, theft, rape and murder are religious and moral distinctions, and you don’t want to flirt with “theocracy,” do you?

  24. Christians didn’t counterfeit Christmas. Christmas is the celebration of the birth of Christ. Nor did we counterfeit Easter. Easter is the celebration of Christ’s sacrificial death and resurrection. We also didn’t counterfeit the other things you mentioned. You’re pretty desperate to avoid the truth, aren’t you?

    As for devaluing marriage, I’m not even going to bother trying further to explain the obvious. If you have even the most remote interest in understanding, you can ponder the implications of counterfeiting currency, and then apply them to marriage. If you have no such interest, no amount of facts or logic will help you.

    Abraham, et al? They didn’t lie, but they all violated God’s design for the expression of human sexuality, in that they were not faithful to one wife. The fact that many people in the Bible violated God’s standard in no way invalidates the standard; it only points out their failure to live up to it. The Bible also cites acts of murder and rape; surely even you aren’t obtuse enough to think that because the Bible mentions them that the mention makes them okay.

    Do you really want to know why I speak out against divorce as I do homosexual behavior? I doubt you really want to know, but I’ll tell you anyway, and the reasons are several. For one thing, there is no political movement that I know of that claims divorce is normal, natural or healthy. Oh, there are plenty of people who want to maintain access to it, but even they admit it is a blight on our society. Also, people who get divorced don’t insist society still pander to an illusion that their divorce is really the same as marriage. Further, while divorce breaks the sanctity of human sexuality, homosexual behavior actually distorts and perverts human sexuality, bringing together sexual organs that were never meant to come together and which can produce no meaningful or functional outcome. Finally, homosexuals are attacking the moral fabric of society in so many areas that it’s hard to find time for lesser threats to marriage.

    Toilet plumbing and humans are indeed very different things. It would only be stupid to try to put together plumbing parts that obviously don’t belong together. With humans, it’s not only stupid, but immoral and very unhealthy. And the functional analogy holds very true, despite your desperate efforts to run from an uncomfortable truth.

    The homosexuality figures I cited? Those were obtained by Hunter College (not a conservative organization by any stretch of the imagination) at the behest of the Human Rights Campaign, a pro-homosexual group. The survey environment doesn’t get any more non-threatening or conducive to truth than that. Of course, that’s another uncomfortable truth, too, isn’t it? Facing the stark, statistical truth that your behavior truly is aberrant?

    I have no obsession with anal sex. You’re confusing me with homosexuals who, short of oral sex, have no other means by which to simulate the heterosexual intercourse their bodies were obviously designed for. There’s really no getting around it: no matter what homosexuals do, they can only affect a pale facsimile of the sexual relations they were created to have.

    Why can’t you at least be intellectually honest and consistent, and just admit: I want to have homosexual sex, and I don’t care that it’s aberrant, unhealthy or immoral. Perhaps it is because deep down even you realize there is a moral and natural standard that you are not living up to, and feel compelled to make excuses for that shortcoming.

  25. I think you’re giving yourself too much credit.

    Based on the way you approach the dangerous behavior of homosexuality, you would tell the person approaching the bridge what a great thing it is, encourage them to follow their own path and have a good time. You’d do the same with with the poisoned water fountain or the room full of snakes. (And no one is promoting “religious” snake handling or poison drinking to society as some are homosexual behavior)

    Or are you telling me you’d be inconsistent? That if the dangerous behavior involved sexual pleasure, suddenly everything would be different?

    No, cancer is a perfectly apt comparison to the terrible destruction that can be wrought from this dangerous behavior (http://www.dakotavoice.com/2009/05/expert-testimony-ignorance-can-kill-you/). Health agencies around the world have revealed that homosexual behavior is more dangerous than prostitution, and researchers in both Canada and the United States have found that homosexual behavior knocks an average of 20 years off a person’s lifespan. Even a homosexual doctor was recently able to face up to this dark truth (http://www.dakotavoice.com/2011/03/candor-on-gay-party-male/). Why can’t you?

    Yes, all Americans have the right to practice whatever religion they want, even worshipping themselves. But they do not have the right to undermine the moral fiber of our nation, nor do they have the right to undermine the family and the stability for children that comes with it. In fact, society has an obligation and duty to to resist such attempts by a self-centered aberrant minority.

    If you want to risk your life with another person who wants to risk their life, no one is trying to stop you. But don’t expect a sane society to reward you or applaud you for it.

  26. You may have watched, but you did not see (Matthew 13:15, Matthew 15:14, Matthew 23:16, Matthew 23:19, Matthew 23:24, Matthew 23:26, Mark 8:18, John 9:39-41, John 12:40).

    Yes, America was indeed founded on Christian principles. It is deniable only by someone astonishingly ignorant, or determined to shut their eyes against a truth they find unpleasant (and you have already proven yourself to definitely fit the latter category). Start here (http://www.dakotavoice.com/tag/christian-heritage/), and the slightest interest in the truth will reveal to you how profoundly wrong you are to scoff.

    I am aware that a number of animals sometimes engage in homosexual behavior. But for all of them, as is the case with humans, it is aberrant, not the norm. Barren women sometimes become un-barren, and even if they never do, their union still affirms (rather than distorts or contradicts) the standard of heterosexual relations. Normally liberals worship science, so why do you find science now so hard to digest? Perhaps because actual science reveals the bankruptcy of your position?

    You don’t have to take anything seriously if you insist. Not morality, not science, not your own health or the health of others, not even the obligation every citizen has to build up their society rather than aim for the lowest common denominator and tear it down. But you can’t say you haven’t been warned. I hope the warning sinks in before you stand before your Creator as we all will do someday, because if you don’t get right before then, you’re going to think back on this day with a great deal of regret.

    But for now, I have no more time to waste on someone who is so overtly hostile toward the truth.

  27. Bob, you are SUCH the Christian warrior!  I stand in awe at your ability to, with wisdom, knowledge and just plain common sense (born of both of the above) shoot down the futile, flaming arrows of the lost enemies of the Truth.

    You are to be highly commended, and I know one Day you will be.

  28. No, this is not a forum to spread lies, misinformation and deceit. It is a place of information where someone interested in truth can add insights and ask questions. We have no interest in joining the roster of outlets for poison and more of the pernicious lie.

    Gina can deftly answer any other of your erroneous points that she chooses to, but I think we’ve all had enough of your hostility toward truth here.

    In closing, since you’ve suddenly become fond of quoting scripture, let me leave you with a few to ponder in the days ahead:

    Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are. – Matthew 23:15 (Jesus doesn’t have much use for deceivers either)

    Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. – 1 Corinthians 6:9-11

    We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10 for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11 that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me. – 1 Timothy 1:9-11

    But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death. – Revelation 21:8

  29. Thanks, Gina, but it’s all to God’s credit. I was once wrapped up in a bunch of lies like these guys. It was only the life-changing power of Christ that set me free and opened my eyes to see clearly.

    God has blessed you with that clear vision, too, and I’m thankful we’re on the same team!

  30. Yes, Bob, I know that to the Lord goes all the credit, but I still want to say that I really appreciate what I see from the Lord in you. You are God’s dynamo! Praise be to God alone! (you’re still one of my greatest heroes, next to Jesus)

  31. You apparently have a problem with capitalization.

    Again, you are a homo-troll who has no knowledge of truth in you.  I have no patience for your idiot attempts to twist, either my words or anyone else’s words here.

    I don’t care what sort of perverse sexuality to which you ascribe.  You are wrong.  Dead wrong.  And I will not humor your delusion by taking your pathetic arguments apart point by point.

    You would do very well to look to the Lord who made you, the One who has called you since you were born, the One Who you have rejected since you were old enough to reject Him–to save you.  He is always standing by ready to give you the freedom and salvation that you desperately need.  He loves you, Mr. Bricker.

    He loves you much more than I do, because I am weak and tend to be very impatient with evil trolls.  God help you, Mister.

  32. “you wanna do the ‘translation’ game?” — My statement is accurate; what you say doesn’t counter it.

    “as far as those quotes… 1) i don’t know that those are real” — I’ve seen plenty of real ones just like those.

    “have you read many comment boards?  i have seen christians spout some of the most heinous violent diatribe.  both sides have been vicious.” — Unfortunately true, which is why I generally try to keep my comments fairly respectful. I virtually never see anyone on the “pro-gay” side give the same courtesy.

    “no one wants to take away your right to marriage.” — ?? I didn’t say I thought they were.”no, that would make them homosexual.” — You miss my point. The right to “marry” someone of the same sex is not an “equal” right; it would be a new, special “right,” regardless of who did or did not want to exercise it.

    “and christians said it was wrong for a black and a white to marry” — Any who did had no Biblical basis for doing so. While it is possible to misinterpret the Bible so as to justify racism (actually, to justify almost anything), overall the Bible is a very anti-racist document. And again, trying to compare race to sexual preference is a false analogy.

    “okay… long term… your great, great, great, great grandchildren are not going to be affected by john and joe hitching up. better?” — No, because you still miss the point.

    Obviously you have your personal reasons for believing what you believe about homosexuality. Unfortunately you appear to be going the common route of finding reasons to keep believing it, rather than honestly seeking to find whether what you believe is true.

  33. “humiliating families at funerals with disgusting signs” — Sorry, but we’re not aligned with the “God Hates Fags” types around here. In fact, we oppose them as much as we oppose legitimizing homosexuality, partly because they do nothing except help inflate homosexuals’ sense of victimization. Frankly, I think most “gay” defenders would rather deal with 100 “God Hates Fags” lunatics than one person who compassionately tells the truth about homosexuality, for they can disregard the former much more easily.

    “this country is a big melting pot of races, nationalities, sexualities, religions, philosophies, etc.” — And how many of the various “sexualities” do you think are valid? Do you also defend pedophilia? And if you don’t now, will you also refrain from defending it if/when defending it becomes popular?

    As much as you and many others would like to think otherwise, there is only one valid form of sexuality: monogamous, heterosexual marriage. All else does harm in various ways, even when the participants can’t (or won’t) see it.

  34. It is an indisputable fact that the existence of the reproductive organs is to interconnect with each other for the purpose of conceiving a new life. This is God’s plan and part of His order of the universe. Pleasurable physical sensation associated with these organs is to primarily ensure a man and a woman engage in the actual act of intercourse in order to reproduce other humans. This is basic biology which rebellious people refuse to follow.

    It’s ironic that those who advocate sexual perversion are many times staunch advocates of environmentalism but they refuse to follow its most basic “rule” of allowing nature to take its course as to reproduction. They are actually anti-environmentalists. They defiantly flout the order of the universe by interconnecting the male reproductive organ with a digestive organ – the large intestine. Specifically, the rectum. A male’s semen was not meant to be planted in human feces in the rectum – hence all manner of physical diseases are manifested with this perverted practice that is anti-reproductive and anti-nature.

    An aside: I’ve noticed a post of mine was used by another poster on another website as if it was their own. I don’t mind if someone uses my posts but it’s common courtesy to acknowledge that another poster wrote it and put the post in quotes.

  35. Thanks for this affirmation of the obvious truth. Times are wacky when some folks can’t deal with what’s right in front of them.

    Regards that aside, was your post re-posted here without attribution, or are you saying that something you wrote here was reposted elsewhere without attribution. If it was here, could you point it out to me so I can take a look at it? Thanks.

  36. I hope is wasn’t me, as I will occasionally borrow an excellent quote to use elsewhere, but always ask permission first.  Yours, Veracity, are some of the best.

  37. While there are aspects of homosexuality that are clearly unhealthy on a physical level, pointing these out only goes so far in showing what’s wrong with it. The real problem with homosexuality is that it’s *mentally* unhealthy, as is any kind of “alternative” sexuality. One does not end up driven to practice such without something (even if it’s not an obvious thing) have gone seriously wrong in one’s life during one’s developmental years. A person who is mentally healthy — by a strict but correct standard, not the conveniently dumbed-down one commonly used today in designating people as “OK” — does not need to fill a hole in themselves with “forbidden” sexuality.

  38. Having read through the comment thread here, I find it sad that a non-Christian shows more restraint, love and compassion than any of the Christians engaged in this debate. Someone needs to read their Bibles.

  39. It was re-posted elsewhere.

  40. Yes, someone desperately needs to read their Bible–and it’s you.

    If you did, you’d find that homosexual behavior is strongly forbidden by God as a gross perversion of his design for human sexuality, which is a man and a woman in marriage (Genesis 2:24, Genesis 2:24, Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Mark 10:6-8, Romans 1:26-27, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:10)

    You’d also find that while God extends grace to the humble, God has no use for those arrogant enough to think they know more than him (James 4:6). In fact, he has pretty strong words for those who claim they are justified before God even as they are leading others into the jaws of Hell along with themselves (Matthew 12:33-37, Matthew 23).

    Mr. Bricker here has strongly and irrationally resisted and shown hostility toward moral truth, scientific truth, and medical truth. There can be no witness or even meaningful dialog to someone who is overtly hostile to reason and truth. Only the Holy Sprit has a chance over time to be able to soften his pride and make him open to the truth.

    This person is not living in the real world, and while it’s between him and God if he wants to destroy his body and soul, he does not have the right to spread lies which, if left unchallenged, could mislead others to join him in destruction.

    Frankly, you’ve (at best) lost your salt, and you know (or at least I hope so, if you’ve read your Bible) how much use Christ has for salt that’s lost its seasoning (Matthew 5:13).

    Christians who have lost their saltiness give the rest of us (and God) a bad name.

  41. Bob, it was posted elsewhere, and to thisoldspouse – thank you very much!

  42.  “I find it sad that a non-Christian shows more restraint, love and compassion than any of the Christians engaged in this debate. Someone needs to read their Bibles.” — Than *any* of the Christians? Sounds like someone needs to go back and read the comments again, actually paying attention this time. Or, perhaps, someone needs to admit that it only sounds like “more restraint, love and compassion” because you happen to agree with his side of the debate.