Judge: Criminal Transgenders Entitled to Your Tax Dollars

You were searching diligently for something else to suggest your government waste your tax dollars on, weren’t you?

Well, U.S. District Judge Charles Clevert has come to your aid, finding a “right” for men and women who are confused about their sex to use your tax dollars while in prison for committing crimes for hormone therapy.

From the Washington Post:

A federal judge has struck down a unique Wisconsin law that prohibits transgender inmates from receiving taxpayer-funded hormone therapy, which alters their appearance to be more like that of the opposite sex.

A group of male inmates who identify as female had challenged the 2006 law with the help of the American Civil Liberties Union of Wisconsin and Lambda Legal, a national gay rights group. They say they need the hormones to treat their gender identity disorder, and not having them would lead to severe health problems.

If they truly wanted to do something to help these people, they would get them some therapy to help them adjust to the reality of what they have between their legs and in their DNA.

For people to be healthy, they need to be adjusted to reality.  The reality of our sex is very easy to determine except for the very few who have legitimate genetic deformities.  If a person is having trouble grasping reality, the responsible thing for government to do–if anything–is to help them adjust to reality, not indulge their delusion.

This decision is akin to buying at taxpayer expense a hat, horse and sword for someone with a Napoleon complex.  It’s not only a waste of taxpayer funds, but a disservice to the person who is maladjusted to reality.

There are a lot of judges out there who need to be impeached for their inability to properly do their jobs, and Judge Clevert just made the list.

40 Responses to “Judge: Criminal Transgenders Entitled to Your Tax Dollars”

  1. Why am I deluded in beliveing that my brain and body didn’t match at birth? Seems like something that can happen to me. My niece sees me as the woman I am. Her ideas of gender roles are a result of society enforcing outdated rules. Most people will fit into gender stereotypes without external pressure, so just remove that pressure and lighten up.

    People in prison should not be denied healthcare. Do you know how trans-people commit suicide every single year because they can’t get the appropriate treatment?

    Do yourself a favour, before you comment on how other people live their lives, try living a day in their shoes.

    I have no desire to rebel as you put it, I just feel like me, and there’s now way I can describe that to anyone who isn’t trans, all I can say is that if you woke up tomorrow, and everyone started treating you as the opposite sex that you are, and expecting you to act in certain way that you don’t normally, how would that make you feel? I dare you to try it for yourself.

    I don’t live in your country, so my treatment wasn’t and isn’t taken out of your taxes, so do you still object to me? or as I suspect, are you using the tax system to object to a group of society that you don’t like.

  2. Since you're suggesting therapy, then maybe you're Ok spending money to treat the inmates. However, the cost of therapy is way more than the cost of hormones. That aside, the medical community has recognized that transition IS the cure. You assume that they are psychologically disturbed, but how would you know or prove that it isn't their brain that is wired differently, as the opposite sex? Best leave the treatment up to the professionals.

  3. It definitely would be best to leave the treatment up to the professionals…if the professionals weren't derelict in their duty to help, not indulge the dysfunction.

    It doesn't take a genius to see a penis and recognize that this is a male, or a vagina and recognize this is a female. I understand that various psychological issues can lead people to become confused about this in themselves, but “the professionals” have a responsibility to point those who are confused toward adjusting to reality, not adjusting to the dysfunction.

  4. “…the medical community has recognized that transition IS the cure.”

    What?! What “medical community,” and what “cure” are you talking about? Any “doctor” who actually believes chopping and sewing and hormones will “transition” a person to the opposite sex is just as deluded as the poor schmendrick who thinks he's a woman.

  5. It has not been proven that there is ANYTHING physiologically wrong with these people who think they should be the other sex, so this prognosis doesn't come under the purview of sound medicine or science – just quackery and the “feelings scientists.” They bodies function as they are intended, unless abused and mutilated against their natural functions.

  6. As someone who is transsexual, I must also be “deluded”. I don't care what my DNA / genes might say I am, I know how I feel. I know that I feel better as I am, than as I was, and surely that's a “cure” to my situation. If society was more accepting of differences, then we all wouldn't feel the pressure to conform to stereotypes of what is male and female. I've gone from feeling the pressure of conforming to male stereotypes, to conforming to female stereotypes. My nine year old niece is telling me I should be doing this, and shouldn't be doing that based on gender steretypes. Where is a nine year old getting these stereotypical ideas of what it is to be male or female?

  7. Yes, you are deluded about your sexuality. Your feelings are irrelevant in the face of a contrary reality.

    If you insist on accepting your dysfunction, there is little that anyone else can do to help you. But society is under no obligation to share in your disorientation, nor is society obligated to affirm your disorientation, and certainly is under not responsibility to help pay to maintain your disorientation.

    If I understand you correctly, part of your problem is listening to children when you should be adjusting to reality.

    Regardless of your desire to rebel against reality, the taxpayers have no moral obligation to finance the continuance of such rebellion, especially when the dysfunctional person has committed crimes against society in the first place.

  8. The American Medical Association ( AMA ) has passed a resolution that hormone therapy for transgendered medical cases is now a standard for medical care. So in this case, it isn't the government wasting your tax money, but simply the government accepting the AMA's formal statement that hormone therapy for transexuals is an offical standard of care.

    There are Christian groups, like Christian Scientists, who think taking Insulin is wrong.Should inmates gets Insulin. Of course. My point is that prisons and jails can't listen to your faction or that faction or another faction, all who have different ideas. They go by what is the accepted medical standard of care and groups like the AMA are the ones who determine such things. Your beef should be with what has been accepted as an official standard of treatment . The government, jails and prison can't refuse accepted offical medical standards, whether it be insulin or hormones.

  9. “Accepted, official medical standards,” you say? Who is responsible for determining these things? The AMA–An organization that represents perhaps 22% of physicians, half of whom are students and residents that are given membership automatically and for free? They are the experts empowered to decide moral and common sense issues for all of us?

    The AMA speaks for only a minority of physicians, few of whom actually work in the trenches seeing and caring for patients every day. The AMA membership rolls are crowded with mostly ivory tower academics and organizational bureaucrats that pontificate and weigh medical decisions with the heavy hand of political correctness, social liberalism and self-interest firmly on the scale. H1N1 anybody?

    Proof? The AMA endorsed Obamcare, yet a Gallup survey found 45% of practicing physicians saying they will retire before they will practice medicine under that kind of government control (I am one of those physicians) and 75% saying the are opposed to the plan in general.

    I think the average American can do a better job of deciding what is appropriate in such cases as this than can the 'experts.' And they would have just as much scientific evidence to back their position. It is foolish and dangerous to expect 'experts' to make decisions about social issues, especially when those decisions characteristically go counter to common sense and widely accepted morality.

    I was once a consulting physician for a county jail. Many inmates complained of chronic headaches, back pain, dental pains, etc. Our policy was to NOT provide any kind of controlled substances to inmates. Dr. Rutledge, would you say that a shot of morphine or some Vicodin would be considered “standard of care” for such problems in most medical practices and ERs? Should inmates be provided with whatever therapy they demand because it might be standard of care in some situations?

  10. Your brain and your body did match at birth. Something has happened along the way that has caused you to become confused about this. Unfortunately you are not only causing problems for yourself by not seeking to reorient yourself to your sex, you are confusing your niece as well. She looks to adults to learn and to affirm what is right. Sadly, you are sending her a message that runs counter to biology and science: if you were born with a penis, you are a male.

    I would again refer you to the analogy about the person who thinks they are Napoleon. You need help, not affirmation in your delusion–especially at taxpayer expense.

  11. Just because the AMA has abdicated its responsibility to help people adjust to reality does not absolve the government of we the people from its responsibility to acknowledge reality and refuse to accommodate delusion.

    Insulin injections acknowledge that the body is not functioning normally. Insulin injections help the body to function normally.

    Hormone injections deliberately force the body to function contrary to its normal function; male bodies are not designed to operate on high doses of female hormones and vice versa. To inject doses of female hormones into a male is to not only help perpetuate mental dysfunction, it is medical malpractice. It forces the body into an unnatural state, one that is contrary to how it was designed to function.

    I agree that government should stop listening to various factions. They should instead heed science and biology, and you don't need a degree in anything to understand that a person who has a penis is a man, and a person who has a vagina is a woman.

  12. dr theo

    We may be arguing similiar points. But first let me point out that no medical organization, medical school or training program would teach,pass resolutions or advocate giving inmates( probably the addicts who request it) morphine or Vicodin. It would not be considered a medical standard of care.Many medical organizations, medical schools and training programs do consider, rightly or wrongly, hormonal therapy for transgendered patients an accepted medical standard of care.

    That is why I say the beef shouldn't be against the government, but should be against the medical establishment.

  13. Oopster74 – Assuming you weren't a hermaphroditic baby who got “assigned” incorrectly, you would do well to take a lesson from one Seymour “Sy” Rogers. He was so convinced he was “transsexual” that he started the process of getting a “sex change.” He spent some 10 months living as the “woman” he thought he was.

    Before the “sex change” process could be completed, he became a Christian and started the long road to recovery from his gender confusion. He has been happily married to a woman for many years and has at least one child that I know of.

    That's a person who has lived in your shoes, so to speak. And he would be the first to tell you there isn't really a such thing as a woman's mind in a man's body; there are only men to have gotten confused about who they are.

  14. A google search for Seymour “Sy” Rogers yields no results. Perhaps you could furnish back-up on this?

  15. Show me the transgender pathology which clearly demonstrates an individual will either be physically incapacitated, experience physiological pain or die from lack of treatment and I will happily endorse government-funded hormone treatment.

  16. That is a great question. Like I said, you will have to the medical establishment( AMA,American Psychiatry Association, Society of Endocrinology etc) why hormonal therapy is considered an accepted standard of care

  17. Bob, you don't know if my brain and my body matched at birth, you have no idea who I am. Post-mortem have shown that the brains of transsexual women are near identical to that of natal women, and transsexual men that of natal men. Just because science can't currently conclusively prove something at this moment in time, doesn't mean it's wrong. It wasn't too long ago that we thought the earth was flat, now we know the earth is round.

    As for my niece, all she see's is her aunt being happy in who she is, and that's what's important.

    DCM – I knew someone would bring religion in the discussion. I am a Christian, have been for as long as I can remember. I am not in “gender confusion” as you put it, I'm completely unconfused about my gender. Sy obviously wasn't transsexual, or is in denial. I feel sorry for those children when it all hits the fan.

    For every 1 person who changed their minds and reverted to their “born” sex, I can show you a thousand who have gone onto live happy fullfilling lives.

    Take morals out of the picture, take religion out, and leave any treatment to the medical people. They have the knowledge and the know how to treat people the right way. Do you think you just decide one morning to change sex, and like the next second it's all over with? It's a long drawn out process from start to finish of analysis, and soul searching.

    I'm 36 next birthday, and I've felt this way since I was 5, and started piecing together the reasons why since the age of ten. I know my own mind, it's my life, my choices, and my mistakes to make if they are mistakes, I'm the one who has to live with the consequences, no one else.

  18. Look at the suicide rate of not treating transsexual people as a result of depression and there's your figures.

  19. “It has not been proven that there is ANYTHING physiologically wrong with these people …”

    Depends what you mean by “proven”. There's hundreds of papers on the subject, all saying the same thing. It's been absolutely proven in experimental animals, but we can't do those experiments on humans for obvious reasons.

    Here's a few of the scientific papers available online.

    Male-to-female transsexuals show sex-atypical hypothalamus activation when smelling odorous steroids by Berglund et al Cerebral Cortex 2008 18(8):1900-1908;

    Male–to–female transsexuals have female neuron numbers in a limbic nucleus. Kruiver et al J Clin Endocrinol Metab (2000) 85:2034–2041

    Sexual differentiation of the human brain: relevance for gender identity, transsexualism and sexual orientation. Swaab Gynecol Endocrinol (2004) 19:301–312.

    A sex difference in the human brain and its relation to transsexuality. by Zhou et al Nature (1995) 378:68–70.

    A sex difference in the hypothalamic uncinate nucleus: relationship to gender identity by Garcia-Falgueras et al Brain. 2008 Dec;131(Pt 12):3132-46.

    A polymorphism of the CYP17 gene related to sex steroid metabolism is associated with female-to-male but not male-to-female transsexualism by Bentz et al Fertility and Sterility , Volume 90 , Issue 1 , Pages 56 – 59

    Androgen Receptor Repeat Length Polymorphism Associated with Male-to-Female Transsexualism by Hare at al in Biol.Psych. Vol65, Issue 1, Pp 93-96

    Here's the abstract from
    Sexual Hormones and the Brain: An Essential Alliance for Sexual Identity and Sexual Orientation Garcia-Falgueras A, Swaab DF Endocr Dev. 2010;17:22-35

    “The fetal brain develops during the intrauterine period in the male direction through a direct action of testosterone on the developing nerve cells, or in the female direction through the absence of this hormone surge. In this way, our gender identity (the conviction of belonging to the male or female gender) and sexual orientation are programmed or organized into our brain structures when we are still in the womb. However, since sexual differentiation of the genitals takes place in the first two months of pregnancy and sexual differentiation of the brain starts in the second half of pregnancy, these two processes can be influenced independently, which may result in extreme cases in trans-sexuality. This also means that in the event of ambiguous sex at birth, the degree of masculinization of the genitals may not reflect the degree of masculinization of the brain. There is no indication that social environment after birth has an effect on gender identity or sexual orientation.”

    See also seminar S10 at the American Psychiatric Association annual meeting last year:
    S10. The Neurobiological Evidence for Transgenderism
    1. Brain Gender Identity Prof. Sidney W. Ecker, M.D.
    2. Transsexuality as an Intersex Condition Prof Milton Diamond, Ph.D.

    It's significant that the evidence isn't coming from psychiatrists, but urologists, endocrinologists, geneticists, neuro-anatomists etc.

  20. You asked for it…
    “Secondly, “Dysphoria,” defined by Marriam-Webster’s Collegiate dictionary as “a state of feeling unwell or unhappy,” or in the American College Dictionary as “a state of dissatisfaction, anxiety, restlessness, or fidgeting” is simply too soft a word to describe the angst most clinicians see on intake with this population. At best it may be an apt descriptor for individuals who, despite strong evidence to the contrary, are making an extraordinary effort to convince themselves that they are sex/gender congruent. These individuals make life decisions such as getting married and having children not only because they may find it appealing to have a spouse and have children but with the added hope that this activity will ease or erase their obsessive cross gender thoughts. Although there may be instances where these special efforts succeed, (i.e. the incongruity is mild) the more likely outcome is a realization they have actually made matters worse. Typically, at time of presentation these individuals report that either their lives are in ruin, or they are very afraid that if their gender variant condition was to become known they would loose all that they cherish and be ostracized from family, friends and the ability to support themselves. High anxiety and deep depression with concurrent suicide ideation is common. One of the most extreme cases I have treated was that of a 50 year old genetic male, married and the father of 3 grown children with an international reputation as a scientist who reported to me that the reason he finally sought out treatment for his gender issues was because the number of times he found himself curled up in the corner of his office in the fetal position muffling his cry was increasing. That is not dysphoria, that is pure misery.” — http://www.avitale.com/TherapeuticErrors.htm

    “The National suicide rate is 3 per 100,000 People. The Transgender Transsexual suicide rate is 31% of our group. Over 50% of Transsexuals will have had at least one suicide attempt by their 20th birthday.”

    “5% of female-to-male transsexuals and 21% of male to female
    transsexuals have made a suicide attempt.
    http://heartcorps.com/subversive/sub007/statisi
    — Source: The Great Divide (How Females & Males Really Differ) by
    Daniel Evan Weiss, drawn from data originally appearing in Archives of
    Sexual Behavior, December 1988 issue.

    This is an enormously distressing and debilitating congenital medical problem. The only therapy we've found that works is to alter the body via hormones, and in severe cases, surgery, so that the neurological anatomy and the rest of the anatomy are congruent. It's a very imperfect solution, but at the moment it's the best we have. We've tried all other techniques, up to and including radical brain surgery, with a 0.0000% success rate. This therapy has a 98% success rate.

  21. Here's what I do know. Were you born with a penis? Then you are a male. Were you born with a vagina? Then you are a female.

    It's really quite simple. You attempt to make it complicated because you want something that God (or nature, if you insist) obviously didn't intend for you to have.

    You would be much happier if you would attempt to get oriented to your God-given sexuality, and you would be doing a service to your niece who, as it stands, sees her uncle acting like a woman and thus undermining this poor girl's proper understanding of sexuality.

    You see, it isn't only yourself you are hurting by embracing your dysfunction.

  22. You probably have a point there. Not treating people confused about their sexuality and helping them adjust to their sex leaves a lot of broken people.

  23. Most of the “scientific” evidence you cited makes some unproved and even unfounded assumptions–the key one being that of cause and effect. Are there sexual differences in sexually disoriented people because of physiological differences, or are there physiological differences in sexually disoriented people because of behavior?

    It has been established that behavior can alter metabolism, chemistry and even brain development. Since there is no genetic evidence of homosexuality or transsexuality, it stands to reason that the most likely cause/effect relationship is that the behavior has altered the physiology.

    Also, the old “hormone abnormalities during fetal development” theory has been floated for some time without gaining any credible scientific traction.

    In the end, it remains simple: if you have a penis, you're a male; if you have a vagina, you're a female. Whatever environmental influences may distort acceptance of this are not healthy and run counter to science and biology. We owe it to those troubled by this disorientation to help them adjust to normality; if they refuse, we are under no obligation to indulge their disorientation.

  24. URLs please. So far, you've made various statements with no attempt to give evidence that they're true. I don't think you know what the word “scientific” means.

    As for post-natal environment – see Kerlin – “Prenatal Exposure to Diethylstilbestrol (DES) in Males and Gender-Related Disorders: Results from a 5-Year Study ” and “The Presence of Gender Dysphoria, Transsexualism, and Disorders of Sexual Differentiation in Males Prenatally Exposed to Diethylstilbestrol: Initial Evidence from a 5-Year Study”

    1 in 5 XY-chromosomed people exposed to DES in the first trimester end up with “gender issues”, and often have obvious Intersex conditions too.

    It's always possible, if you're not expected to give evidence, to say that “Gravity is just a theory… No-one's proven the Earth is spheroidal… Evolution's just a theory…”. When there's genuine controversy, such as with AGW, there's lots of contradictory evidence on both sides. Here we have a mountain of evidence on one side, and on the other, people saying “well, we're not convinced” without adducing any evidence at all.

    As for “if you have a penis, you're a male; if you have a vagina, you're a female.”
    See http://www.usrf.org/news/010308-guevedoces.html . By your view, these people get a natural sex change. And transsexual women are women, which seems contrary to what you were saying before.

  25. I don't jump through hoops for people who deny obvious reality, Zoe. You and I have been through this before and you're still trying to rebel against God and the universe.

    God gave you free will, and you're entitled to expend it on futility, but I'm not obligated to indulge it.

  26. Just to add to Zoe's amazing post, anyone who thinks we actually choose to be transsexual, needs their heads looking at. If we could choose to be “normal”, then the vast majority of us would choose that, but we can't as it's just not the simple. Life is variants of grey, not black and white.

  27. Even with dubious “evidence” supplied by an increasingly politicized scientific community (what does the political decisions of Obamacare have to do with the practice of medicine?) do you honestly think that one self-proclaimed “transgender” will be turned away from “treatment” despite lack of any physiological evidence that he is anything other than the sex he was born into?

    The honest answer to this question will sweep away any delusions that this movement is based in science or reason, but pure, political game-playing with the most radical factions dealing the deck.

  28. When I was a drunk, I couldn't choose to stop being a drunk and reorient my life to reality…until I did.

    There are a few shades of grey out there, but most of life is black and white. We often try to manufacture greys to hide behind to provide cover for our desire not to change.

  29. The attempted suicide rate among transgendered persons (these are folks that have undergone the hormone and/or surgical mutilation) has been reported to be 32% in a study from the University of Nevada. Apparently, treatment is not as successful as you've stated, Zoe.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17135115

    Your description of the angst of individuals suffering with this disorder is probably accurate in many cases, but, in any event, it is almost a definitional description of a delusional disorder. I know of no other delusional condition for which the accepted therapy is to indulge and promote the suffers delusions, even to the point of physical mutilation.

    Within the GID community rates of drug abuse, violence, depression, bipolar disorder, and suicide are many times that of the general population, in spite of medical and surgical therapies. I don't know by what measure you can claim a “98% success rate.”

  30. Difference is Bob, you chose to put that first drink to your lips, therefore choosing your problem. You're objecting to taxes paying for transsexual treatments and surgeries, yet you don't object to the biggest source of health care – people who smoke who then develop cancers. Why should my taxes go to pay for their stupidity? Their choice to smoke in the first place. Then, people who drink far too much and end up with liver damage, that again is self inflicted. Lastly, most people choose to have kids, again, why should my taxes pay for their “lifestyle choices”. The fact is (at least in countries where the government provides healtcare for all regardless of ability to pay), if you need treatment, you get it. No moral decisions come into it, and no moral decisions should come into healthcare. If someone gets run over by a car, you don't check to make sure they come up to your moral standards first, you do what you can to help, whether that being something medical, or simply calling for medical help.

    At the end of the day, we all have a moral compass, and no-ones points in the “right” direction, only the direction we think is right.

  31. Actually I didn't choose to be a drunk until I gave in to my mental and emotional problem, just as the person who feels a disorientation about their sexuality doesn't choose homosexuality or transgenderism until they choose to give in to that disorientation.

    I finally chose to work on correcting my disorientation, just as many homosexuals and people caught up in transgenderism reach a point where they choose to correct their disorientation.

    The problem with many (drunks and sexually disoriented) is that they have not yet chosen to change, and resent being told they should change or even that they can change. They recognize staying where they are is more comfortable than the hard work of change, and believing they can't change, that their disordered state is somehow normal and acceptable, assuages the guilt and makes it more comfortable to remain in that state.

    This is a lie which traps people in an unnatural, disordered state, and while some people may care so little about their fellow human beings that they will choose to perpetuate it rather than risk people not liking them, I will not indulge that lie at the expense of others.

    And while this is a bit off topic, you obviously haven't read very much of what I write, because if you had, you would know that I do object to paying for the health care of others who drink and smoke and do drugs. But that's another story for another thread.

  32. Dr Theo – the abstract you quoted makes no mention of them being treated with either hormones or surgery. Those are the results if they're *not* treated.(EMPHASIS ADDED)

    “Undoubtedly the most comprehensive recent review of SR was authored by Pfafflin and Junge (1992). Originally published in German, it became available in English translation only in 1998, and then only in electronic form. Pfafflin and Junge reviewed over 70 studies and 8 previous reviews — investigations comprising over 2000 patients in 13 countries, and spanning 30 years. It is worth looking at the authors' conclusions in some detail before turning to more recent studies.

    The primary reason that SR is undertaken is to relieve gender dysphoria, a term used to describe transsexuals' discomfort with their anatomic sex, or their sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex (American Psychiatric Association, 1994). Pfafflin and Junge concluded that SR treatment was generally effective in relieving gender dysphoria, and that its positive results greatly outweighed any negative consequences. They found overall that the results of SR in FMs were somewhat more favorable than in MFs. Pfafflin and Junge noted that satisfactory results of SR were reported in over 70% of MFs and in nearly 90% of FMs in the earliest reviews, conducted through 1984. Those results improved to 87% satisfactory results in MFs and 97% satisfactory results in FMs in a more recent review by Green and Fleming (1990), which considered only studies performed after 1980. “

    See Pfäfflin, F., Junge, A., (1992) Sex Reassignment. Thirty Years of International Follow-up Studies After Sex Reassignment Surgery: A Comprehensive Review, 1961-1991

    When only surgery since 1990 is considered, we get a 98% satisfactory result. This appears to be the result of better surgical techniques, and more experienced surgeons.

    Suicide rate amongst post-operative transsexuals was 1.9% in 1988 according to Aspects of psychiatric symptoms at different stages in the treatment of transsexualism
    Mate-Kole et al. The British Journal of Psychiatry.1988; 152: 550-553

    http://bjp.rcpsych.org/cgi/reprint/152/4/550.

  33. Bob – I don't read your blog as I'm not in your neck of the woods, I only knew of this posting thanks to a yahoogroup I'm a member of.

    You can't compare being a drunk, to being gay or transsexual. You don't become gay or transsexual, you are from birth. You become a drunk through your own fault, external pressures, other reasons, but you are not born a drunk. You have my admiration for combatting your drinking problem, but being gay or transsexual, is less a problem for the peophe that can accept it, and more of a problem for the people who can't accept it.

    I'm not going to change your mind on this, and you're not going to change my mind either.

    You saw that being gay or trans is unnatural and against God? That is one religions viewpoint. I think it's Sikh religion or Buddism that believes in more than 2 sexes. I'm neither of them, I'm a Christian. I believe God made me the way I am for a reason. What that reason is, I don't know, but I do know, that I have the brains to know that if I'm not happy, that I need to do something about it.

  34. “Sy obviously wasn't transsexual, or is in denial.”
    'Ex-gays' like him throw serious question on claims like yours; you can't just dismiss them so casually and expect that to take care of things.

    “I am not in 'gender confusion' as you put it, I'm completely unconfused about my gender…
    I can show you a thousand who have gone onto live happy fullfilling lives.”
    Speaking of denial… are you trying to convince us, or yourself? There's a lot more to being one gender or the other than which sex you're attracted to or how masculine/feminine you are, you know. Scientific knowledge regarding body chemistry of males vs. females should have quashed the whole notion of “transsexual” by now.

    I know I can't counter, by a few brief statements, the long, hard reality that you've experienced. But I suspect you're yet another person who, so to speak, is in a dark place and doesn't know (or believe) that a brighter one exists, because you've never seen it.

    Virginia – Try just searching for “Sy Rogers”

  35. It's interesting that you would say that I was not born a drunk, because that is essentially what many who are drunk, are former drunks, and who treat drunks and former drunks, say.

    They say you're a drunk through no fault of your own and that you always will be one (even though countless of us drunks haven't had a drink in years–for me it's been 18).

    Homosexuals, transsexuals and every other person who is disoriented sexually wasn't born that way, either; science and biology clearly indicates we are naturally heterosexual. Through a complex set of environmental variables, their grasp on normal reality with regard to sexuality became distorted and damaged (not unlike the process drunks go through to reach the point where they give in to their distorted grasp of reality and seek to deal with it through alcohol).

    No, they are not exactly the same, as obviously one deals with the area of sexuality while the other is more of a generalized emotional thing. But the similarities are striking and can only be ignored by those who have a strong interest in ignoring them.

    Yes, I realize I probably won't change your mind today. But I do hope that someday you will stop leaning on the “I can't” crutch and choose the path to be restored to what you were always intended to be (whether you believe God intended it or nature).

  36. Bob

    I am curious about something about 'giving in' to mental and emotional problems. Do you think the person with severe endogenous depression, manic-depression or bipolar disorder just gives in to these disorders or chooses to just give in to them, which in turn affects their behavior ?

  37. We all have a choice about the things we do and the mental states into which we allow ourselves to go. Sometimes the ideas and attitudes we embrace makes it easier to take the next step into certain actions and mental states, but we always have a choice. The further we go along such roads, the harder it is to find our way back, but we always had a choice to begin with, and we always have a choice to turn around and begin the hard work of making it back to normality.

    Our society has been waging a decades-long war on responsibility, and for a number of reasons (not the least of which being the good of the “patient”) we need to stop it. A lot of money has been made in keeping people perpetually enslaved to a psychosis or bad attitude through the chains of “you can't help it” and “it isn't your fault” and “you can't change.” It breeds more and more counseling, and more and more drugs to try and cope with what will never be workable.

    I understand that it is the human condition to seek an escape from responsibility for ones actions and choices (it goes back to the Garden of Eden), but that doesn't make it acceptable or healthy.

    We do society a disservice and those struggling with attitudes and choices a disservice when we cater to the basest of them.

  38. You are mistaken, Zoe. The article that I cited states: “To determine the independent predictors of attempted suicide among transgender persons we interviewed 392 male-to-female (MTF) and 123 female-to-male (FTM) individuals. Participants were recruited through targeted sampling, respondent-driven sampling, and agency referrals in San Francisco. The prevalence of attempted suicide was 32% (95% CI = 28% to 36%).”

    These subjects were in various stages of “treatment.”

    You obviously have spent a lot of time and energy on this subject and you clearly have an extensive list of research studies that support your position. So why do you deny the facts of other research when it contradicts your prejudices? And why, with all the resources that you have do you choose articles from 1988 and 1990? Has there been no research supporting your beliefs that are less than 20 years old?

    I have treated several patients with delusional parasitosis and am impressed at how ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN they are that there are little worm-like creatures crawling in and out of their skin and body orifices. No amount of tests, cajoling, or rational argument can convince them otherwise. I fear, Zoe, that your delusions are equally refractory to any rational give and take discourse. You apparently are happy to live with your delusions even to the point that they become who you are. It is very sad and I'll pray that you'll one day find true peace and joy in our Lord Jesus.

  39. Bob

    I know you believe and even said earlier that we all have a choice about the mental state we allow ourselves to go. Even the most ardent Christian counselor knows that no matter how much a person tries, that if they are hearing voices, then there is an medical cause or explaination for it and chemicals are needed.

    In the 17th and 18th centuries and before, people of religion were sure it was the persons choice or fault or demonic etc and if they just 'got their mind right' they could be fixed and quit hearing voices. I am not saying sexual identity issues are just the way the person is born and not saying they are just choices either. What I want is continued research and open discussion on such issues, without one side claiming to know they know for sure.

    I would hate for us to assume that ALL 'mental states' and the resultant things we do( like hearing voices or manic behavior) is a choice. Period . We have been wrong before