Carrie Prejean’s Pastor Demolishes Homosexual Lies

Im wondering why miles got involved in all this? How much was he paid? It just seems awkward that he seems to embroil himself in some controversy in pop culture.. is it because he is not getting enough tithes fromhis congregation to support the Nehemiah project?

Part of a pastor's job (a central part) is to speak God's truth in any venue which is open to them. As Prejean's pastor, a venue opened for him when Perez Hilton, a homosexual activist, chose to politicize the Miss USA pageant with his question. And when homosexual activists initiated a campaign to demonize Prejean for stating the obvious, one of the questions that always arises concerns the fact that God has made it abundantly clear in both the Old and New Testament that the created design for human sexuality is between a man and a woman, and that homosexual behavior is a sin. Her pastor is her teacher, spiritual mentor and counselor. That is how he became involved in the issue. How wonderfully like God's sense of irony that because a homosexual activist politicized a beauty pageant, a man of God received the opportunity to speak the truth to millions.

Hi Bob Ellis,

I want to thank you for what you wrote. I am a christian man who is also a practicing homosexual. How is that possible? Well becasue I am a sinner doesn't make less of a believer, just wrong. Anyway, my point in writing to you/ at you is that I believe you are wrong when you say God wants gays to be heterosexual. While some gays can become practicing heterosexuals, its rare and often forced and leads to worse things. I think God whats us, those who struggle with homosexuality, to become non-practicing homosexuals - which Paul in the new testament mentions (sorry I forgot the book, but its one of his letters.) Marriage is not a decree of neccessity (again see Paul commenting that if you cant keep it in your pants marry, but its not neccessary - liberal interp) anyway. I think the "cure" for homosexuality is not heterosecuality but instead deepening ones relationship with Christ. Jesus commanded the apostles to pick up their cloak/stick and follow him and make believer out of th nations. I truly believe this is out fundemenatl call. Follow chirst, preach the gospel and follow the 10 commandments. Through doing this God will take care of the rest. For some it's wife and children for others its not.

I think the Church spends too much time finding and arch nemisis in Sin. Christ came to save souls not change the goverment rule (romans at the time) even though his followers wanted that messiah. I think that everyone should have equal rights because after all this isnt a Christian nation, I mean there are tons of other religons here. We are not Isreal. If we can allow a muslim, buiddist or non-christian to marry (which are all sinners as they worship false gods) how dare we stop gays?! As lond as Christion and other religons are not forced to marry then it's seperation of church and state. In the meantime, I think Christians should get back to want they are meant to be doing saving lives. The harvest is coming and when the farmer comes, he can care less about senate bills. He wants souls.

I look forward to your thoughts.

Jae.

Thanks for your comments, Jae. I was about to shut off further comments because this has been discussed pretty thoroughly, but yours was different than pretty much any other submission here.

You are pretty much correct when you said that you can be a Christian while being a practicing homosexual; fortunately, once we have been born again, God doesn't cast us off when we sin again. However, the continuation of this sinful practice in your life is putting distance between you and God (as any sin does), and I gather from your comments that you're probably aware of that. You may also be aware that while God has great grace toward us when we sin, we should not rely on that grace as a "crutch" or excuse to continue in sin--we should be working to overcome our sin, especially those that have ensnared us habitually.

It is also true that a homosexual would not have to become a practicing heterosexual in order to be "right" or "justified" or "cured" or whatever word we might choose to use. Simply abstaining from those temptations would be sufficient.

However, since most people feel the need for intimacy and sexual expression, we tend to gear most of our comments and responses toward that majority, and so state that if one intends to be actively sexual, then according to God's standard that must be done between a man and a woman in marriage.

But if someone wants to remain celibate, or simply is not attracted to the opposite sex, abstaining from homosexual temptations is sufficient.

You are also correct that Christ came to save souls. A critical first step (as seen in the book of Romans) is the recognition that one is a sinner and in need of being saved. Unfortunately, our pop culture is broadcasting as loudly and broadly as possible to homosexuals the message: "This isn't a sin." Our culture is therefore misleading people about the state of their sinfulness, and their need for the Savior's redemption. And in obedience to Christ's call for his people to be the "salt and light" this dark world needs, it is our responsibility to counter that error and do everything we can to ensure that the truth is heard. In a free, open society like ours where the government is ostensibly of the people, by the people and for the people, that means Christians have a duty to be the voice of conscience and truth to that government; the statements and writings of those who founded our nation confirm that role in our nation.

Our nation was demonstrably founded on Christian principles by Christians, and most Americans still identify with Christianity. However, your statement regarding the marriages of Muslims, Bhuddists, etc. is irrelevant to the discussion. Marriage was the first human institution, instituted by God when he created and brought together the first man and woman, and it transcends governments and nations. Governments have a responsibility to safeguard it (more on that here: http://www.dakotavoice.com/2008/05/society-and-...) , since governments have an authority delegated by God and because preserving marriage is in the interest of any state, but marriage is greater than any government. Whether the people getting married are Christians, Bhuddists, Hindu, American, Czech, Russian or whatever...marriage is and has always been between a man and a woman. Just as you can't rightfully join two male plumbing parts or two female plumbing parts, you cannot rightfully join two men or two women and have it constitute a "marriage." Males and females were quite obviously meant to go together; it shows in our reproductive organs, it shows in our complimentary mental and emotional gifts, and most of all for the believer, God made it quite clear in his Word.

Two men or two women can obviously take it on themselves to try and circumvent that plain truth, but their union will never be functional as a real marriage is, and society is under no obligation at all to recognize an illegitimate attempt at union.

"Most religions condemn homosexuality." False statement. It should be said, "Most Christian denominations condemn homosexuality." Don't think as a westerner. Think as a global citizen. Just because Christians pick and choose what rules to apply to everyone, doesn't make it the end all, be all.

Also, I've never met a straight person "become" homosexual. What makes you think a homosexual can "become" straight? It is a part of the genetic make up of a person, just like the color of their skin. Yes, there are people who deny their homosexuality and try to conform to society by living a straight life, just like there are black people who deny their black culture and "act white." You know who you are. I went to school with some of you.

Perhaps I should have said "All the major religions of the world condemn homosexual behavior;" perhaps that would have been more accurate.

There are a number of obscure and fringe religions out there, many of which don't even address the morality of human sexuality.

But Christianity, Islam and Judaism all clearly teach that homosexual behavior violates God's design for human sexuality, and that God says it's a sin; only heretical elements who clearly go against the doctrine of their religion say otherwise.

Heterosexuals "become" homosexual frequently...well, as frequently as less than 2.9% of the population can be considered "frequent." Sometimes people who have lived heterosexually for some time decide for whatever reason to indulge him homosexual behavior.

Regardless, it remains clearly immoral.

And no amount of creative perception can make a black person white or a white person black. But you probably have no idea how silly you look, resorting to such nonsensical statements in an attempt to justify what clearly cannot be justified.

Wow - what a long and tiresome discussion. As usual, the "pro-gay" people (for lack of a simpler term) keep falling back on emotional arguments that don't really address the facts that the others bring up.

Anyway, I'm in a position to observe a lot of what can be termed "sexual addictions," and here's one thing I've come to realize: Normal sexuality consists of either monogamy or abstinence; so a normal heterosexual is NOT the guy who looks at porn, beds a different girl every week, or drools over every babe that walks by.

Sexual abnormality -- homosexuality, promiscuity, porn addiction, pedophilia, etc. -- never exists INSTEAD of normal sexuality; it always exists ON TOP OF it. In short, a recovered gay guy would not suddenly start lusting after all the pretty ladies. Rather, he would be abstinent until he's at the point of being able to commit to ONE woman, which is NORMAL. "Normal" is no farther away for the gay guy than it is for the promiscuous straight guy; they just would have to reach it from opposite directions.

The problem is that too many people don't know what normal sexuality is.

Whatever the case may be. Whether you genuinely believe that homosexuality is a learned behavior as opposed to an innate characteristic, explain why it should be relevant to you what decisions others choose to make with their lives. The core principle of any truly free society is personal autonomy and the right to express ones' self. Is it not closed minded to suggest that your personal views on marriage should be established as those of the state. Just as no one should be entitled to tell a Jew they must be married by a Reverend or a Lutheran they must be married by a Rabbi, no one should be able to dictate to another with whom they should spend the rest of their lives. The institution of marriage does not belong to any one group in society and is not by definition a religious institution. If it is truly a religious institution, then we should also ban intermarriage because it is frowned upon and Catholics should not be allowed to get divorced because it is forbidden by their Church. Further, for all those who claim to use religion as their basis for denouncing homosexuality, it should be said that nowhere does the bible forbid lesbianism but only contains a prohibition about man laying with man. When all is said and done, the reality is that no one should give themselves the right to impose their morals and religious convictions on someone else. As I said before, the cornerstone of a free society is personal autonomy. I would just like to add that I am not a liberal homosexual. I am in fact a heterosexual conservative republican who believes that civil liberties and a minimal role for government are of the utmost importance.

No, the core principle of any truly free society is not the right to express ones self. Were this the case, one person's rights would continually trample on those of another. No civilization characterized by self-centered hedonism can survive for long, and there are plenty of ancient civilizations which illustrate this truth.

The core principle of any truly free society involves self-restraint, self-discipline, and adherance to a transcendent moral code. America was characterized by such a foundation until the last 50 years or so; we have been the most free people on earth because we built the foundation of our society on Judeo-Christian values and the self-restraint found in those values. People are free to do as they wish and "express themselves" as they wish, within the boundaries of a transcendent moral code which protects individuals and maintains the integrity of the society as a whole.

As Benjamin Franklin so aptly observed, “Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters."

To the issue of marriage, these are not "my views." These are the views of the overwhelming majority of human beings, both today and throughout human history. In fact, until recently no society was insane enough to seriously consider the lunacy of homosexual "marriage."

What's more, this is the stated opinion of the One who created humanity--and his "vote" counts more than anyone's. God made it very clear that his design for the expression of human sexuality is between a man and a woman in marriage. Furthermore, this is common in the doctrine of every major religion.

I must also correct your assertion that the Bible does not condemn homosexual behavior among women. Please read Romans 1:26-27 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=rom...

Homosexual behavior is a behavior which science, biology, religious doctrine and health data all agree is a bad idea. It makes no sense whatsoever biologically, is immoral, and is very unhealthy (did you know that 72% of male AIDS cases are linked to homosexual behavior, and that homosexuals have much higher rates of other STDs, hepatitis, anal cancer, substance abuse, depression, suicide and domestic violence).

There is simply no reason whatsoever that a society should view homosexual behavior in any legitimate fashion, much less make special accommodations for it.

Umm, I don't get it. Male prostitutes won't inherit the kingdom of God, but female prostitutes will? Nor will you inherit it if you drink, but yet drinking isn't a sin because Christians can drink wine? No one who has sex, but yet children are forced into sex before marriage everyday? Love everyone and don't judge, but yet all these people are sinners and you shouldn't accept them? The bible confuses me.

You might try reading it sometime, Leslie, instead of parroting the silly arguments that are clearly out of context or just wrong. It is not the Bible that confuses you, it is your bias and bigotry.

If you're looking for an all-inclusive list of sins, it would be a pretty long one. I don't think you'll find anywhere in the Bible (or anywhere in existence, for that matter) that provides a continuous, complete and comprehensive list of every possible sin. But the Bible does indicate that any sex which is performed outside the bounds of a husband and wife in their marriage is sin; so yes, that would include female prostitution.

Does the Bible say drinking alcohol is a sin? No. Does it say drunkenness is a sin? Oh yeah. It says so in this passage and others...just as it is clear in many passages in both Old and New Testaments that homosexual behavior is a sin.

God didn't say we must show love by ignoring sin. We are not to judge as if we were morally superior (which none of us are; all human beings are fallen sinners), but we have a heavy obligation to warn people when they are caught up in sin. You might check Ezekiel 3:18 and Matthew 5:13-16 for a start.

If you really would like to stop being confused by the Bible, I would suggest seeking out a good church that teaches not human platitudes but the Bible. It's really not as hard to understand as it is made to seem by those who have no interest in following it in the first place.

The greatest lie is that there is anything natural about homosexuality at all. That position is indefensible no matter what you believe. Most religions condemn homosexuality based God’s ordinances, and there are some important considerations. One is that if God condemns it, as He clearly does in both the Old & New Testaments, you have to think about the implications of God creating someone with no hope of salvation; i.e. “making” people with irrevocable characteristics that automatically exclude them from salvation. I can’t repent from having brown eyes, but I can repent from any of the behaviors listed as sins. It should be noted that none of the things listed as sin are characteristics we are “hardwired” with (e.g. hair/eyes/skin color), but are all behavioral choices. Homosexuality is listed among sins, along with drunkenness, lying, theft, etc. – all behaviors we can choose to participate in - or not. Thus the “God made me this way” argument is invalid when we consider that He has provided a way of escape from anything He calls sin.

But it is not necessary to involve God in this discussion at all, because it’s quite clear that nature itself will not suffer homosexuality. What I mean by that is that nature itself condemns the notion that it is a genetic property. In nature the propagation of a species is dependent on procreation, which for obvious reasons is not possible in homosexual relationships. So let’s say there was a genetic mutation that caused an organism of one gender to be only attracted to others of the same gender. How would this mutant gene be passed on? It can’t be. The organism with the mutant gene would leave no offspring, and the mutant gene would end there. Could it happen again and again? Yes, but the result would be the same. This points back again to the behavioral choice aspect of homosexuality.

Regardless of all that, it is indeed possible for a behavior to become so deeply ingrained that it is extremely difficult – even seemingly impossible – to emerge from. But big hurdles are overcome by an even bigger God.

Whatever the case may be. Whether you genuinely believe that homosexuality is a learned behavior as opposed to an innate characteristic, explain why it should be relevant to you what decisions others choose to make with their lives. The core principle of any truly free society is personal autonomy and the right to express ones' self. Is it not closed minded to suggest that your personal views on marriage should be established as those of the state. Just as no one should be entitled to tell a Jew they must be married by a Reverend or a Lutheran they must be married by a Rabbi, no one should be able to dictate to another with whom they should spend the rest of their lives. The institution of marriage does not belong to any one group in society and is not by definition a religious institution. If it is truly a religious institution, then we should also ban intermarriage because it is frowned upon and Catholics should not be allowed to get divorced because it is forbidden by their Church. Further, for all those who claim to use religion as their basis for denouncing homosexuality, it should be said that nowhere does the bible forbid lesbianism but only contains a prohibition about man laying with man. When all is said and done, the reality is that no one should give themselves the right to impose their morals and religious convictions on someone else. As I said before, the cornerstone of a free society is personal autonomy.

I'm proud of Prejean standing up for her beliefs and her pastor for supporting her.
However, I believe there's a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding on both sides of the homosexual argument. It is certainly difficult for many homosexuals to understand the religious objection to their ways. It is even more difficult for heterosexuals to understand what it is like to be a homosexual. While a homosexual may have had exposure to the Bible and Christianity, a straight person can never understand what it is like to be gay. It is unfortunate that the issue has reached such a hateful level of lying on both sides or the argument.

Are all of you guy's crazy???? Did god not preach of love and acceptance... This tells me so much about so called Christians or followers of Christ. I just love when people back bite and argue it makes Satan sooo happy.

No, Brent, and if you really believe that, someone has deeply misled you.

God loves everyone, and he expects all his children (i.e. every human being) to love one another.

He does not, however, overlook behavior which is contrary to his nature and his standards (i.e. sin).

God loves people too much to allow them to remain in sin, so he provided a Bible to know what is right and wrong, and a way--the sacrifice of his son Jesus Christ--to leave behind our slavery to sin and begin living the way he intended us to.

God also made it clear that those of us who have found his truth and accepted it are to tell others about it, to warn them from the consequences of sin and to point them toward his truth.

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.

Matthew 5:13-16 "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men."You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

God has made it clear that homosexual behavior is a sin. God has also made it clear that people who know the truth are to tell others about it; failure to do so is itself a sin.

So those who turn a blind eye to the fact that homosexual behavior is not only unnatural and unhealthy but also immoral are sinning themselves. And they are failing to warn homosexuals about the eternal dangers of this behavior.

If you saw someone driving toward a canyon where the bridge was out, would it be a loving act to just stand there and watch them drive on, or to smile and wave as they drove toward their doom?

you are an idiot.

Wow...Its actually just sad for me to think that some people actually think this and than that others buy into it like this. I just don't understand how in a country built on the fundamentals of separation of church and state people can be so adamant about instilling their own personal religious beliefs into laws that effect everyone. Also, who gives him or any other preacher for that matter the right to speak for the whole Christian church? I could understand if this was a unanimous feeling held by all Christians but it clearly is not. No the Bible may not have contain the passage that he referred to but last time I checked it also contained numerous passages about unconditional love. Not to mention though that the Bible has been translated and changed so many times over the years that I do not see how anyone can truly call it the word of God. My two cents :}

That's a real gem of wisdom, Daniel. What gives Pastor McPherson the right to repeat what the Bible--that ostensibly the whole Christian church accepts--teaches? The nerve of the man---to actually believe God and take him at his word!

It is true that a significant number of Christians choose to believe a lie over what the Bible very plainly teaches in both Old and New Testaments: that God created human beings to express their sexuality between a man and a woman in marriage, and that homosexual behavior is a sin. The fact that a significant number of people choose to ignore the truth in no way invalidates the truth; it merely renders them morally impotent.

As to the passages about "unconditional love," you must have missed the ones where God told his people to speak the truth about sin:

Ezekiel 3:18 When I say to a wicked man, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to dissuade him from his evil ways in order to save his life, that wicked man will die for his sin, and I will hold you accountable for his blood.

Matthew 5:13-16 "You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled by men."You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

It might also stun you to realize how accurate those translations are, and how old some of them are. Some of the manuscripts go back nearly 2,000 years; few other historical documents can make such a claim. And many of the translators went to such lengths to ensure accuracy that they would copy one sentence, then go back to compare the number of words in the original and the copy, then compare the number of characters in the original to the new.

But if one chooses to ignore the truth, there is little that can be done to dissuade them. But having been presented with the truth, the rejection of it then falls very heavily on their head when the day of reckoning comes.

P.S. I wanted to correct your fallacious assertion that America was " built on the fundamentals of separation of church and state," and I will do it with the words of the men who founded this nation. While we do not have a theocracy, or the state church of official state religion which would characterize a theocracy, the United States was most definitely NOT intended to be a nation that divorced itself from the religious values which founded and maintain a healthy republic:

Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness. – George Washington’s Presidential Farewell Address
We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. – John Adams

It is religion and morality alone which can establish the principles upon which freedom can securely stand. Religion and virtue are the only foundations…of republicanism and of all free governments. – John Adams

While the people are virtuous, they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader. – Samuel Adams

It should therefore be among the first objects of those who wish well to the national prosperity to encourage and support the principles of religion and morality. – Abraham Baldwin, signer of the Constitution

Without morals a republic cannot subsist any length of time; they therefore who are decrying the Christian religion whose morality is so sublime and pure…are undermining the solid foundation of morals, the best security for the duration of free governments. – Charles Carroll, signer of the Declaration of Independence

Only a virtuous people are capable of freedom. As nations become corrupt and vicious, they have more need of masters. – Benjamin Franklin

Sensible of the importance of Christian piety and virtue to the order and happiness of a state, I cannot but earnestly commend to you every measure for their support and encouragement – John Hancock

Righteousness alone can exalt them [America] as a nation…The great pillars of all government and of social life: I mean virtue, morality and religion. This is the armor, my friend, and this alone, that renders us invincible. – Patrick Henry.

The practice of morality being necessary for the well-being of society…We all agree in the obligation of the moral precepts of Jesus and nowhere will they be found delivered in greater purity than in His discourses. – Thomas Jefferson

The Holy Scriptures…can alone secure to society, order and peace, and to our courts of justice and constitutions of government, purity, stability, and usefulness. In vain, without the Bible, we increase penal laws and draw entrenchments around our institutions. Bibles are strong entrenchments. Where they abound, men cannot pursue wicked courses. – James McHenry, signer of the Constitution, Secretary of War

I believe that religion is the only solid base of morals and that morals are the only possible support of free governments. Therefore education should teach the precepts of religion and the duties of man toward God. – Gouverneur Morris, penman and signer of the Constitution

Religion and morality…are necessary to good government, good order and good laws, for “when the righteous are in authority, the people rejoice” – William Paterson, signer of the Constitution, U.S. Supreme Court Justice

The propitious smiles of Heaven can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right which Heaven itself has ordained. – George Washington’s Inaugural Address

The law…dictated by God Himself is, of course, superior in obligation to any other. It is binding over all the globe, in all countries, and at all times. No human laws are of any validity if contrary to this. – Alexander Hamilton, signer of the Constitution

Let it never be forgotten that there can be no genuine freedom where there is no morality, and no sound morality where there is no religion…Hesitate not a moment to believe that the man who labors to destroy these two great pillars of human happiness…is neither a good patriot nor a good man. – Jeremiah Smith, Revolutionary soldier, judge, U.S. Congressman, Governor of New Hampshire

It yet remains a problem to be solved in human affairs whether any free government can be permanent where the public worship of God and the support of religion constitute no part of the policy or duty of the state in any assignable shape. – Joseph Story, U.S. Supreme Court Judge, Father of American Jurisprudence

Religion and morality are the essential pillars of civil society – George Washington

Whatever makes men good Christians, makes them good citizens. – Daniel Webster

The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were…the general principles of Christianity. – John Adams

Human law must rest its authority ultimately upon the authority of that law which is divine. – James Wilson, signer of the Constitution, U.S. Supreme Court Judge

Whoever is an avowed enemy of God, I scruple not to call him an enemy to his country…God grant that in America true religion and civil liberty may be inseparable and that the unjust attempts to destroy one may in the issue tend to the support and establishment of both. – John Witherspoon, signer of the Declaration

No country on earth ever had it more in its power to attain these blessings than United America. Wondrously strange, then, and much to be regretted indeed it would be, were we to neglect the means and to depart from the road which Providence has pointed us to so plainly; I cannot believe it will ever come to pass. – George Washington

When a citizen gives his suffrage [vote] to a man of known immorality he abuses his trust [civic responsibility]; he sacrifices not only his own interest, but that of his neighbor; he betrays the interest of his country. – Noah Webster

Consider also the observations about the Christian foundations and character of the United States by visiting Frenchman Alexis de Tocqueville in the 1830s, observations which help the discerning person understand the unofficial but important and potent role of the Christian faith in the public square of America:

Upon my arrival in the United States, the religious aspect of the country was the first thing that struck my attention; and the longer I stayed there, the more did I perceive the great political consequences resulting from this state of things to which I was unaccustomed. In France I had almost always seen the spirit of religion and the spirit of freedom marching in pursuing courses diametrically opposed to each other; but in America, I found they were intimately united and they reigned in common over the same country.

Was this a union brought about by theocracy or state religion? Not at all.

In the United States religion exercises but little influence upon the laws and upon the details of public opinion, but it directs the manners of the community, and by regulating domestic life it regulates the State.

He further explains:

Religion in America takes no direct part in the government of society, but it must nevertheless be regarded as the foremost of the political institutions of that country

He also says

…there is no country in the whole world in which the Christian religion retains a greater influence over the souls of men than in America; and there can be no greater proof of its utility, and of its conformity to human nature, than that its influence is most powerfully felt over the most enlightened and free nation of the earth.

de Tocqueville sums up the proper relationship between civil government and religious faith–actually the need for religious faith.

Despotism may govern without faith, but liberty cannot. Religion is much more necessary in the republic which they set forth in glowing colors than in the monarchy which they attack; and it is more needed in democratic republics than in any others. How is it possible that society should escape destruction if the moral tie be not strengthened in proportion as the political tie is relaxed? and what can be done with a people which is its own master, if it be not submissive to the Divinity?

To attack the Christian foundation of the United States is akin to taking a jackhammer to the concrete and support columns on which a skyscraper is built. In other words, self-destructive lunacy.

To stop being a "practicing" homosexual is does not mean one becomes straight. These are ignorant thoughts. A homosexual can no more become straight than a straight person could become gay.
Stop persecuting homosexuals and ACTUALLY read Leviticus. Once you all start practicing _everything_ written in that book, then you can start targeting homosexuals.

Yes, and to stop drinking (as I have for the past 15 years) doesn't mean one becomes sober. If that sounds like nonsense, it's because it is nonsense...as is the contention that homosexuals cannot modify their behavior. They've been doing it for thousands of years, as 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 illustrates.

Yes, please, do "ACTUALLY read Leviticus...but don't stop there. I would also suggest you read some other instances where God made it clear that homosexual behavior is contrary to his design for human sexuality, and that it is a sin:

- Genesis 2:24 Where God outlined his design for human sexuality: “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.”

- Genesis 19 where men of Sodom wanted to have sex with the male angels, and it was called a “wicked thing”

- Judges 19 In Gibeah where “wicked men” wanted to have sex with a Levite man, and it was called a “disgraceful thing”

- Mark 10:6-8 Jesus reaffirms God’s design for human sexuality: “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’ ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one.”

- Romans 1:26-27 where the Bible talks about “godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness” and says “Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.”

- 1 Corinthians 6:9 says, among other habitual sins, homosexuals “will not inherit the kingdom of God”

- 1 Timothy 1:10 condemns “men who practice homosexuality”

God really could not be more plain and clear that homosexual behavior is a sin.

But when human beings are determined to do what is wrong, their capacity for self-delusion never ceases to amaze...

Unless you are a homosexual yourself, you don't know what it is like to be born gay. Yes, you are born gay, just the same way Pastor Mc Pherson was born black. You can't "make" a person go from straight to gay in as much as you can "turn" a gay person straight. You can modify their behavior, but inside you still are who you were born to be. While it is true that there aren't black people who used to be black, we all know people who deny their "blackness", if you will, just like there are people who deny their "gayness."

Joel, no one knows what it's like to be "born gay" because people aren't born homosexual. I hate to break it to you, but it's a cop-out. A moral and behavioral cop-out.

Pastor McPherson's simple statement revealed that lie for what it is.

No person caught up in abberant behavior changes that behavior easily. But just as alcoholism, drug abuse, gambling addiction, lying, shoplifting and many other behaviors can be changed with determination and effort, so can homosexual behavior.

It's very sad that you are enslaved to this sin, and that you are quite comfortable with your chains.

Wow, way to go with a completely non-biased piece of journalism jewel... NOT.

Thanks. I use the New York Times and CNBC as my model.

I think people are going after her for her hypocracy not her beliefs. She is now being used by the likes of O'Reilly who could care less about her.

Perez Hilton, a name as flaky as he is, ambushed Prejean intentionally, knowingly and with forethought. He had been informed that she was an acknowleged Christian and had arranged with the pageant organizers to have a shot at her with a question that he knew would be damaging to her any way that she answered. This was a bigoted, hateful and intolerant attack on Christians in general and should be viewed in no other way.

I don't want to hear anymore from homosexuals about tolerance or open-mindedness. Not all, but many are so full of self-loathing that they must try to destroy everyone and everything that reminds them of just how perverse their lives really are.

No, they're definitely going after her for not paying the proper homage at the altar of political correctness.

The hypocrisy or the moral lapse (whichever it may be) simply makes it easier to do.

Carrie Prejean use to be naked for pictures too! How "Christian" of her! Just like Marion Barry, who is speaking on the immorality of homosexuality use to be a crack smoking whore monger. Yet ANOTHER role model to tell people how to act! WOO HOO!!! Keep up the good work on choosing your public figures!!!

You didn't mention your conversion; may I assume you are perfect? You should perhaps be glad that your misdeeds haven't made it into the public eye! It’s very easy to point a condemning finger when you don’t know the whole story. Here are two things you don't know about Carrie: 1) she, like most folks, has not always been a Christian, and 2) she now works with young women helping them get freed from being strippers. You didn't mention how you are helping people to get free from unhealthy or self-destructive lifestyles. You ARE doing something, aren't you?

I do believe she acknowledged that these pics were a mistake, and I have pointed that out, too. If moral perfection is the requirement to acknowledge any moral standards, then no one measures up--not police, judges or clergy.

But moral failures on the part of people who say they are Christians does provide a handy excuse for people who have no interest in being moral in the first place, doesn't it?

It doesn't make their behavior any more moral, but it helps them soothe their guilt, doesn't it?

"I know a lot of people who used to be gay; I don’t know anybody who used to be black."

Michael Jackson, for one.

that's all pretty easy to put out there when your "natural" is the norm. what if you were a straight man forced to have sex with another man? that would probably be traumatizing for you wouldn't it? what makes you think it's not the same for a gay man to have sex with a woman, or a gay woman to have sex with a man? it's not as simple as "just do what comes natural and give up that extra gay stuff you do on the side" your natural is not natural to everyone. your norm is not everyone else's norm. and not considering that..and i really mean putting yourself in another person's shoes here... to not consider the fact that heterosexual sex is not natural for some people, that it's actually traumatizing, is ignorant and heartless. This is what gay people mean when they say "god made me this way," and that's why others commit suicide when they are not accepted by people like you.. because you can't put yourself through that for a lifetime, you can't make yourself attracted to someone you just aren't attracted to, or on the flip side, just never let yourself fall in love at all, just as you can't make yourself gay. So having the attitude that " well god intended sex this way, just change," as though change were possible, how is that okay? and what gives you any say? you aren't okay with it..dont' do it. but dont tell someone else they can't. especially when they are not hurting anyone. and if no one is getting hurt, what's it to you? we're not talking about murder here, or sexual abuse. you're going to tell someone else to suffer through life, for what? to satisfy your own moral code? once again, we're not talking about murder here. another persons sexuality has absolutely no effect on you. absolutely no one gets hurt by one person loving another, or what two men or two women do behind closed doors.

PJ, I think rape would be traumatic for anyone, don't you?

Moving beyond this poor attempt to excuse homosexual behavior, heterosexual behavior is demonstrably the norm. Science demonstrates it. Biology demonstrates it. History demonstrates it. Even a Human Rights Campaign survey (a pro-homosexual group) last year found only 2.9% of Americans are homosexual. There is simply no rational way to paint homosexual behavior as normal or natural; it is obviously abnormal, an aberration.

God made all people to be heterosexual, just as he made all people to act in morally responsible ways. But because we live in a fallen, morally corrupt world, some people get caught up in behaviors including alcoholism, drug abuse, gambling addictions...and homosexual behavior.

The good news is that they can all change...if they want to bad enough and are willing to keep trying.

Claiming "I can't" is the easy way out. Unfortunately too many take the easy way out...but then, a very wise man once said that the way to destruction was broad.

Finally, if homosexual activists would keep this behavior behind closed doors, they'd see a lot less of the disagreement they so detest. But when they insist on forcing society to accept a sexual behavior which is clearly abnormal, unhealthy and immoral, expect disagreement.

This whole argument about chosing one's sexuality, and its relationship to how gay people should be treated is just stupid. Religion is more a choice than sexuality will ever be, but it is still illegal and wrong to discriminate against religious folks, not matter how morally offensive their religion might be.

So homosexuals are just like mindless animals who cannot control their own behavior? Talk about hate-speech!

You said that, not me. I know perfectly well that homosexuals can abstain from homosexual sex. My father did it for long enough to marry my mother. I lied about my orientation for a long time too until I finally realized how depressing and stupid it was to do so.

My argument was that gay people shouldn't have to pretend to be straight to be treated as equals in this society. Just as religious people are not expected to give up their chosen religion, gay people should not be forced to give up their sexuality.

Uh, no, Elizabeth, it was you who said that homosexuals, like animals, are incapable of free will and modifying their own behavior. Don't say something unless you're willing to accept all that it entails.

Homosexuals shouldn't have to pretend to be heterosexual, but neither should they surrender to the slavery of homosexuality. All human beings were created to behave heterosexually (the natural function of our sex organs states this as plainly as anything), and just as the alcoholic should not surrender to the impulse to get drunk, so the person experiencing same-sex attractions should not surrender to those impulses.

With time and continual determination, change IS possible; the success rate for former homosexuals is actually better than that of drunks and drug addicts.

Ok you got me on that one. I really admire your ability to fight off your constant homosexual urges. What's your secret? Am I just not praying hard enough?

Fortunately I'm not tempted with same-sex impulses.

I was at one point tempted with the urge to drink to excess. After facing up to the moral truth about what I was doing, the damage it was causing, throwing myself on God's mercy, and determining to change even though I didn't know how I could and even doubting I could...I found that after several months and a few relapses that it was getting easier...and easier...and easier as time went by.

Based on what I've heard from former homosexuals, they overcame their homosexuality in similar ways.

There is no magic bullet that makes change easy, but a couple of things are required, and will usually make eventual change possible: (1) Completely facing up to the truth that the behavior is wrong and needs to change, and (2) a determination to abstain from the behavior for the long haul, even despite setbacks.

But until a person admits their need to change, it won't happen. Which is why the politically correct lies being passed around in pop culture are so dangerous: they convince many people to keep on heading for oblivion.

Bob Ellis, you are one ignorant fella! The first two humans? Adam & Eve? You actually believe in this fairy tale? OK, if they were the first two created from God's image and Adam's rib, what happened next? They had sex (and they were unmarried, oh my gosh!) and eventually, Cain & Abel & Seth and various other children were born from their loins. What next oh scholarly Bob?

Since Adam and Eve were alone with their children, how did the human race endure? I have the answer, incest! There is no other possible explanation, unless God planted seeds in the ground and after nine months, the seeds sprang from the ground and voila, fresh humans. If that wasn't the case, incest is the only logical explanation! And biblically speaking, incest is ok, but homosexually is not? I guess that would explain a lot about the south!

Anyways, I don't want to waste too much time because it has been scientifically proven that people, when presented with scientific fact (especially the Bible thumpers) that disprove their beliefs, tend to mentally retreat and cling harder to what they believe, no matter how ridiculous.

My point is that, ok I accept that you need to use a crutch such as religion to express your hate and intolerance towards things you are too simple minded to understand, but look at it this way. You clearly accept that hermaphrodites exist, and you attribute this to God's way of punishing humanity after the fall. Fine, couldn't this apply to homosexuals as well? Perhaps in his divine judgment and as part of our never ending punishment, God decided that some people on Earth should be persecuted for their sexual beliefs through no fault of their own? Maybe it is God that causes confusion amongst certain men and women, and leads them astray, causing them to question their sexual orientation? Maybe,

See, you probably think I am just another liberal zealot trying to hate on religions, but I was raised Roman Catholic and had a relatively strict moral upbringing (and no I am not gay either) and yet despite all that oppression from a young age, I can still logically see that gay people do exist and since they do exist, I believe they should have the full rights and freedoms that every American has (I am Canadian by the way).

Sure, from a Darwinian point of view, homosexuals are genetic dead ends and are aberrations in nature, because to insure our survival as a species, procreation is necessary. Speaking of genetics though, do you believe in things such as DNA? Do you believe that if certain members of your family are fat, or have heart failure, or a genetic disposition for breast cancer, that there traits can be passed on from one generation to the next? If you do believe in these types of scientific findings, can you also say that maybe, just maybe, someone clearly born as a boy or a girl might have a slight genetic difference that causes them to prefer the same sex and that since it is genetic, a cure is not necessary and nothing is technically wrong with them?

I know that no matter what I say, your opinion, and that is all you have, an opinion, will not change. But look on the bright side, since gays are less likely to breed, you should hope I am right about the genetic angle, because in a few generations, if everything goes according to 'plan', their will be no more gays among the 'clean and pure' hetero stock. Instead of trying to cure these people, maybe you should encourage that they embrace who they are, that way, they will stick to their own 'kind' and eventually their numbers will dwindle because of their lack of baby making abilities.

On that note, I sign off with saying that religious rhetoric as well as the church have been unsuccessfully trying to suppress scientific discoveries for centuries and science has been making fools out of so called religious scholars for centuries as well, I guess this is just another case of the same thing.

Sincerly,
John

John, I'm sorry that your own ignorance or abstinence prevents you from seeing the truth of what I've said here, but that's something you'll have to fix; there's nothing more I can do than simply present the information. You can lead a horse to water, as they say...

Adam and Eve were married when God gave away the bride to Adam. And yes, they had sex and produced children.

And yes, the siblings married one another and produced subsequent children. If you relied on the Bible itself and scholarly exposition rather than snarky God-hating drivel, you might realize that there was no prohibition against siblings marrying one another and producing children at this point; God didn't prohibit this for close to another 3,000 years--after enough genetic errors crept into the gene pool (Adam and Eve were created in perfect physical and genetic condition) to start producing serious birth defects when close relations produced children...and I think most of us would agree that visiting birth defects on innocent children is something that should be avoided if at all possible. A sensible prohibition, wouldn't you think?

Did you know, John, that not a single claim of the Bible has been disproved? Not a single one? Oh, there has been plenty of interpretation of scientific evidence (that has been fallaciously presented as fact), but no proven scientific evidence which passes the test of the scientific method.

In your ignorant diatribe on Christianity and science you probably don't even realize that most of the scientific greats of history were creationists who believed the Bible, including Isaac Newton, Blaise Pascal, Johann Kepler, Louis Pasteur, Galileo, Joseph Lister, Sir Francis Bacon (who developed the scientific method), Gregor Mendel, Robert Boyle, Leonardo da Vinci, and many more. Belief in God and the Bible didn't seem to impede these great minds and men one iota.

In the end, there is simply no scientific evidence that homosexual behavior is dictated by genetics. Ideas, suspicions and theories do not equate to scientific fact.

But it's much easier to claim that one cannot change, isn't it? It (in one's mind, anyway) relieves one of the responsibility to behave morally, doesn't it? And that's really what this argument is about, isn't it?

A license to behave immorally while feeling justified.

Dear Mr. Ellis,

I was disappointed to see that most of the scientific greats you mentioned also believed that women were incapable of reason, and that as white men they were morally and physically superior to non-whites. And of the scientists you mention, only one, Joseph Lister was a 20th century scientist -- and he died in 1912. Also, I'm not sure Mendel is an appropriate example, as Mendelian genetics is the basis for evolutionary study in general.

Could you please provide some more modern examples of scientists who were/are creationists?

Thank you,
Katherine

Really? Why do you think these men believed that women were incapable of reason, and that as white men they were morally and physically superior to non-whites?

And even if they did, have you ever known of a single human being who wasn't wrong about something? And did the things they were wrong about somehow magically ender the things they were correct about invalid? Think that one through, would you?

As to Mendel, his experiments actually disproved key tenets of evolution theory. But then, as is the modus operandi of many evolutionists, almost anything can be twisted to fit a presupposition.

Regardless, Mendel believed in the Creator. The impressive roster of scientific greats who did and do believe in God reveals the fallacy of John's implication that Christian doctrine "suppresses science." Nothing could be further from the truth; believers are very curious about exploring the wonders of the creative genius of their God.

"Could you please provide some more modern examples of scientists who were/are creationists?"
The following is a short list of twentieth century scientists that believed in a supreme intelligence/creator:
Niels Bohr
Sir James Chadwick
Marie Curie
Enrico Fermi
Alexander Fleming
Max Planck

You're welcome,
Dr. Theo

Also, please cite your sources to support your assertion that the men mentioned by Mr. Ellis "believed that women were incapable of reason, and that as white men they were morally and physically superior to non-whites."

Oh please, research has proven that homosexual brains are different than heterosexual brains, it's biological just like skin color! http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/08...

Of course now you say scientists are just evil anti-religion types that would say anything to get their agenda pushed, there's a word for that, paranoia. You'll probably dismiss this research as fiction, just as atheists will claim the Bible which that Pastor took as ultimate final word - as fiction. At least with science you can see it with your own eyes... or will you stop believing your own eyes next?

You're getting the cart before the horse, and the chicken and the egg question mixed up.

Is the behavior different because the brain is different, or is the brain different because the behavior is different?

We see many instances where, because a person does a certain type of work or task considerably more than another person, that various parts of the brain will grow, diminish or change based on what sort of behaviors are dominant among their activities.

Really no different than the reason Arnold Schwarzenegger and Kiefer Sutherland look so different in muscle tissue. It's not so much a difference in genetics as it is that Schwarzenegger has spent a huge portion of his life building muscle tissue while Sutherland has not.

In the end, there is simply no genetic dictator for homosexual behavior. Human beings are not animals, capable of acting only by instinct. We have intelligence, moral awareness, and a will. Homosexual activists should do themselves a favor and start acting as if they think more highly of themselves than a bunch of mindless animals.

what about michael jackson? he use to be black.

Michael Jackson is an example which is both funny and sad at the same time.

But he's still a black man, regardless of all the gyrations he's gone through attempting to be something he was never meant to be. I could paint myself up with blackface, but I'd still be a white man.

The same could be said for all the folks claiming they were "born homosexual." Simply a lot of philosophical pretzel-twisting that ignores science, biology, history and theology...all in order to avoid the responsibility of changing an unnatural, unhealthy and immoral behavior.

So ashamed of this ignorant man.

Yes, it's a shame that Perez Hilton is so ignorant. He probably doesn't even realize it, nor does he realize the damage he's doing to marriage, family and the moral fiber of our society with his ignorant statements.

Ignorance. What a dumb man.

Yes, Perez Hilton is indeed a very ignorant man.

You can't equate drinking and homosexuality. And, yes, people have been pretending not to be homosexual for thousands of years, this is true. Why have they been pretending? Because people have been using archaic texts and mass the mass delusion known as "religion" as an excuse to persecute them. Sometimes it's easier to live a lie than to be burned at the stake, lose your job, or be called names like "faggot".

Actually one can quite easily compare alcoholism and homosexuality. Both involve immoral behavior, both are self-destructive, and both can become highly addictive--and both can be overcome if one truly wants to and is willing to keep working at it.

It's really sad that you think homosexuals have been pretending to leave that behavior behind for thousands of years (I'm not "pretending" not to be an alcoholic anymore--I haven't the slightest desire to drink anymore). This is unfortunately an inability on your part to deal with the fact that someone else is able to do what you or perhaps someone you care about is unwilling to do. It's much easier to say "I can't" than to deal with the fact that you could but are unwilling to try.

i totally agree that prejean has been persecuted, but i don't follow this "evidence" that homosexuality is not genetic. if "God would not create someone in such a way as to specifically function in complete opposition to his design for human sexuality," how do we explain hermaphrodites? or homosexual behavior among animals (which really does happen, just ask a farmer!)?

and michael jackson used to be black :-)

Cute one about Michael Jackson (I guess there's an exception to everything, eh?) :-)

I know homosexual behavior is sometimes displayed in the animal kingdom; I've seen it myself. But the cause for it--and hermaphrodites--can be traced back to the same source: the Fall.

When the first two human beings chose their way over God's way (something God had warned them against), what we know as "the curse of sin" or "The Fall" came upon not only humans but everything under their dominion. And since God had placed all of creation under their dominion, all of creation became cursed with death, disease, decay and malfunction.

Those malfunctions are not God's will, but a consequence of humans exerting their will over God's. These malfunctions take various forms including death, birth defects, and more. Consequently, flawed, often sinful behavior by one person can cause others to developed flawed perceptions about reality, fostering still more malfunction and sin.

So, on one hand science reveals no genetic cause whatsoever for homosexual behavior. On the other, theology tells us it is a problem often brought on by a world malfunctioning because of the sin of the original human beings.

But the same theology that tells us homosexual behavior is a sin that violates God's design for human sexuality, that same theology offers hope to overcome it (1 Corinthians 6:9-11), and the information we need to understand who we are under God and how we can be restored to a right relationship with our Creator ( Romans 3:23, Romans 3:10-18, Romans 6:23, Romans 5:8, Romans 10:9, Romans 10:13, Romans 5:1)

It's too bad there aren't more pastors like Pastor McPherson who aren't afraid to buck peer pressure and PC considerations, and tell people who need to hear it about God's remedy.

Excuse me, science has revealed there is genetic cause of homosexuality. Why don't you try researching before you post?


All McPherson is doing is spreading the same uneducated crap.

Also you realize that your probably do things that are in the same part of the bible as homosexuality that are looked down on. Things that are impossible to change. So I guess if gays are burning in hell you are too.

But honestly, everyone is a sinner, you can't change that, it doesn't mean gays are going to hell. You certainly aren't following Jesus word by loving one another by spreading hateful lies, so why don't you get off of your high horse.

By the by, there's a reason they call it politically correct, because they're edcuated so they know they're correct.

A genetic cause for homosexual behavior revealed? Really? How are you privy to this revelation that no one else seems to know about. Surely you're not relying on some obviously biased and poorly documented homosexual propaganda, are you?

Homosexual behavior is impossible to change? I suppose those Christians mentioned in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 were lying...as were the drunks, thieves and other sinners who changed their behavior. As am I, a former drunk who hasn't had a drink in over 15 years.

Please, do yourself and homosexuals a favor and stop pretending homosexuals are mindless animals who have no control over their behavior. God created them much higher and much more nobly than that.

God loves homosexuals so much that he wants them to get out that behavior and live as he intended them--heterosexually within marriage. God loved them enough to send his son Jesus to die for them (and for every other sinner, like me) so that we could end this slavery to sin and move toward the abundant life God wants for us.

Why don't you consider embracing that truth and God's love, and stop trying to keep homosexuals enslaved to their sin?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/08...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7456588.stm
http://playthink.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/the-g...

PBS and the Journal of Neuroscience have similar findings.
Surely PBS isn't pushing "the gay agenda?"

If you check previous comments, I already debunked this fallacious bit of propaganda.

And yes, I have no doubt whatsoever that PBS is pushing the homosexual agenda; they are at least as liberal and willing to stoop to politically correct propaganda as any "news" organization out there.

"I know a lot of people who used to be gay; I don’t know anybody who used to be black."

Well, Michael Jackson jokes aside...

Just remember that walking away from homosexual behavior is extraordinarily difficult -- just as walking away from, say, alcoholism or pornography addiction. A lot of people fail at leaving it behind, and liberals are fond of talking as if that proves that it *can't* be left behind. WRONG. The people who fail only prove that it's difficult; the many who succeed prove that it's possible... and extremely desirable.